Packard One Twenty
- StokerDon
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Yesterday I was back in the Old Neighborhood to take care of some business. I stopped in at an old friend's shop to see how he was doing. He usually works on some pretty old and unique stuff so it's always an interesting visit.
While I was there, a customer dropped off this 1941 Packard One Twenty. This one is a survivor, not restored. It has a little over 40,000 original miles on it and looks great! It's go the Strait 8 in it. Sorry, the pics inside the shop didn't come out too well. Data plate. No, I couldn't read the stamped part even when it was right in front of my face. -Don
While I was there, a customer dropped off this 1941 Packard One Twenty. This one is a survivor, not restored. It has a little over 40,000 original miles on it and looks great! It's go the Strait 8 in it. Sorry, the pics inside the shop didn't come out too well. Data plate. No, I couldn't read the stamped part even when it was right in front of my face. -Don
- freetown fred
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Sweet Donny, thanx for postin the pix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- StokerDon
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- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Thanks guys, glad you like it!
The owner bought this car a few months ago. He brought it in because it didn't run quite right. So a few things got fixed and it runs much better and he started driving it around.
The owner brought it back in because he thinks it doesn't have the power that it should. While I was there, we put a dwell meter on it and it read 38* right on the nose. The car doesn't smoke at all so it's not rings or valve guides. Next will be a compression test. The car obviously sat for a very long time so there is a good chance that the valve seats need some help.
-Don
The owner bought this car a few months ago. He brought it in because it didn't run quite right. So a few things got fixed and it runs much better and he started driving it around.
The owner brought it back in because he thinks it doesn't have the power that it should. While I was there, we put a dwell meter on it and it read 38* right on the nose. The car doesn't smoke at all so it's not rings or valve guides. Next will be a compression test. The car obviously sat for a very long time so there is a good chance that the valve seats need some help.
-Don
- freetown fred
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Tell him to dump a jug of Marvel Mystery Oil in her--works on old Harleys---why not old Packards!! LOL Silly but, new plugs, wires, points, condenser???????????? Is oil gettin top side?
- Sunny Boy
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Very nice find.
A friend had a '41 120 woody wagon. Even though the 120 line were the "economy" Packards, they are a long beast !!! During the restoration, putting the front fenders on we had two guys sitting completely under the fender bolting it on and there was still room for a third.
Sitting in the front seat, the excessive narrowing of the front of that long hood makes it look like the perspective of an even longer hood !!!!
One of the problems with Packards of that era was the small spark plugs Packard used as standard. The friend had a machine shop do a common upgrade other Packard owners found helps performance. He had the spark plug holes in the head bored out to use the larger Champion D-16 (now Champion 516) plugs used in many makes of engines of the 1930's. Made a noticeable difference in performance. He drove it for many years locally and to car shows out of state. A few years ago he sold it and bought a '31 Packard touring.
If your friend's customer still has the small spark plugs that upgrade to the 516 plugs might help.
Also, if he still has the ignition coil in the original mounting on top of the engine block, moving it to a cooler location - like many other auto manufacturers did - can help performance when the engine heats up.
Paul
A friend had a '41 120 woody wagon. Even though the 120 line were the "economy" Packards, they are a long beast !!! During the restoration, putting the front fenders on we had two guys sitting completely under the fender bolting it on and there was still room for a third.
Sitting in the front seat, the excessive narrowing of the front of that long hood makes it look like the perspective of an even longer hood !!!!
One of the problems with Packards of that era was the small spark plugs Packard used as standard. The friend had a machine shop do a common upgrade other Packard owners found helps performance. He had the spark plug holes in the head bored out to use the larger Champion D-16 (now Champion 516) plugs used in many makes of engines of the 1930's. Made a noticeable difference in performance. He drove it for many years locally and to car shows out of state. A few years ago he sold it and bought a '31 Packard touring.
If your friend's customer still has the small spark plugs that upgrade to the 516 plugs might help.
Also, if he still has the ignition coil in the original mounting on top of the engine block, moving it to a cooler location - like many other auto manufacturers did - can help performance when the engine heats up.
Paul
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- StokerDon
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I think that is mostly to get rings un-stuck. This one doesn't smoke so the rings are still doing their job. This was the first time I have been over to this shop in over a year so I don't know what work got done the first time the car was in. My freind has been doing this kind of work for over 60 years now so I would trust him to know what he's doing.freetown fred wrote: ↑Wed. Dec. 30, 2020 9:59 amTell him to dump a jug of Marvel Mystery Oil in her
If it ends up being a valve seat problem, the head will have to come off. That would be a good time to do that upgrade.
That one gets my vote for "most likely cause" before we go tearing into the valve seat job. It does have the coil mounted in the original location and the coil looks like an old one. And that just reminded me that the customer said "it seems to loose power when warmed up".
-Don
- Sunny Boy
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Lack of smoke in the exhaust isn't always the way to rule out engine condition for lack of performance. And while 40K miles doesn't sound like much now-a-days,..... for a car born in 1941 the early oil and gas were nothing like we know. With that many miles that likely would need serious engine work. Heck, even into the 70's by 20K miles it was time to think about doing a valve job that was at least grind the valves and knurle the guides. By 40K the compression would be down.
Simple compression and leak-down tests will tell you if the reduced power is valves, rings. Then testing ignition timing and ignition advance with a timing light, plus running with a vacuum gauge, both standing and driving, will tell a lot. All without the expence of many shop hours wrenching into the unkown. I own a restoration shop specializing in pre WWII cars, so I know how expensive tearing into an engine without first doing proper diagnostics can get.
There is no state oversite of restoration shops like there is for modern car repair shops. You'd be shocked to know how much poorly done work gets passed off as "restoration/repair" in the antique auto hobby,.... including work done by expensive shops. And lots of shabby work gets high praise by the one selling the car.
For 40 years, half my work load has been fixing things others supposedly have "fixed".
Paul
Simple compression and leak-down tests will tell you if the reduced power is valves, rings. Then testing ignition timing and ignition advance with a timing light, plus running with a vacuum gauge, both standing and driving, will tell a lot. All without the expence of many shop hours wrenching into the unkown. I own a restoration shop specializing in pre WWII cars, so I know how expensive tearing into an engine without first doing proper diagnostics can get.
There is no state oversite of restoration shops like there is for modern car repair shops. You'd be shocked to know how much poorly done work gets passed off as "restoration/repair" in the antique auto hobby,.... including work done by expensive shops. And lots of shabby work gets high praise by the one selling the car.
For 40 years, half my work load has been fixing things others supposedly have "fixed".
Paul
- StokerDon
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- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Maybe the other guys would, but I am not shocked at all. I've see it first hand, time after time. Shiny paint & bondo can hide a lot of poor work.
Like I said, my freind has been doing this for a living for 60+ years. He may be old, but after the car has been through every other shop in the area, and it's still not right, it ends up here to get fixed correctly.
-Don
- freetown fred
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S, that MMO is good for just about any engine situations---hence the name!!!! LOL Yep, I'm sure he does.
- StokerDon
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
So, I guess this means I should do a follow up to find out what happened?freetown fred wrote: ↑Wed. Dec. 30, 2020 8:59 pmS, that MMO is good for just about any engine situations---hence the name!!!! LOL Yep, I'm sure he does.
-Don
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Great car! Amazing survivor. Thanks for sharing Don! Would love to hear a follow up some day. I'd bet that worn/burnt valves and seats are part of the mix.
I always admired Packards of any vintage. I only have light knowledge of them. I was very happy to visit the Packard dealership museum in south Dayton, OH. about 14 years ago. It's also a working repair shop for Packards as well, at least when I was there. They would bring a car up on an ancient auto elevator to the one stall bay upstairs. There was also a large back area where they did some catering, etc. They had several more survivor Packards back there, including two that had belonged to Al Capone.
About 25 or more years ago I went into a very old carb and parts shop in Pottsville, PA. I think it was called the Pottsville carburetion shop back then. After descending into what I would call a deep pit in the basement, it was surrounded by many, many levels of shelves stuffed with old carb manuals. In the center of the pit were two old geezers ( about as old as I am now) under a single lightbulb in easy chairs having a spirited argument about the best jetting for Packard straight 8 square 4 barrels. They completely ignored me for a long time, but I didn't care. It seemed like a sacred place. I believe that place was gone not long after that although someone else may have been running it for a spell. I'd guess that master level carburetor shops are scarce today. Not totally gone like the generator and starter rebuild shops that every town used to have.
I always admired Packards of any vintage. I only have light knowledge of them. I was very happy to visit the Packard dealership museum in south Dayton, OH. about 14 years ago. It's also a working repair shop for Packards as well, at least when I was there. They would bring a car up on an ancient auto elevator to the one stall bay upstairs. There was also a large back area where they did some catering, etc. They had several more survivor Packards back there, including two that had belonged to Al Capone.
About 25 or more years ago I went into a very old carb and parts shop in Pottsville, PA. I think it was called the Pottsville carburetion shop back then. After descending into what I would call a deep pit in the basement, it was surrounded by many, many levels of shelves stuffed with old carb manuals. In the center of the pit were two old geezers ( about as old as I am now) under a single lightbulb in easy chairs having a spirited argument about the best jetting for Packard straight 8 square 4 barrels. They completely ignored me for a long time, but I didn't care. It seemed like a sacred place. I believe that place was gone not long after that although someone else may have been running it for a spell. I'd guess that master level carburetor shops are scarce today. Not totally gone like the generator and starter rebuild shops that every town used to have.