Really BIG TRUCKS

 
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johnjoseph
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Post by johnjoseph » Fri. Aug. 13, 2021 8:07 pm

The subsidies that farmers here got, they no longer get and they were worthy in my opinion. Local farmers had drainage mitigation funds to ensure top soils could be recouped and significantly reduce nutrients and nitrogen rich soil didn't wash into our waterways. What was once excellent fishing grounds and clear waters have been lost in the past 15 to 20 years. Their are no longer subsidies here that support runoff mitigation. They say it's because the equipment is more advanced and mitigates the issue as the soil isn't worked to the depths they used to. It is true to an extent, but it doesn't mitigate anything for the waterways; subsidies for equipment has been more prevalent, but not here. The largest farms in my area may be 500 acres of ag product and the rest in rotational crops that are disced under for nutrient revitalization. If you're under a certain acreage you get very little, but the large conglomerates eat up the market share and those conglomerates are in the Midwest for the most part. We have farmers selling of land here for house lots, but those are the little guys trying to stay afloat. The 500 acre guys are taking some of there least profitable ground and installing solar on 100 acre increments and making equally as much as their cash crops when all is said and done. They call is diversification....I call it a new type of farming that will take over ag farming. Better for my fishing grounds, but I'll never see the benefit. Maybe a couple generations down the line will and hopefully my sons offspring will...if they are outdoorsman. There's always a silver lining for someone I guess.

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Aug. 13, 2021 9:12 pm

Sounds like a whole different way of farming there. Farmland cannot be sold as housing here. if it cant be farmed, like wooded, then sometimes, or if a farmers son wants to build he can, but only so many houses per section. You couldnt find a farmer who would sell farmland for a house anyway, unless its near a town for full development. With high grain prices I imagine farmland will be worth $9-10K an acre here again, but has been hanging around 6K for a while. You have to have 5 acres minimum to build on too, almost always. My house sits on 5 acres and is an old farmsite from the 1870's, original home. It was only sold cuz farmland was only 1500/acre at the time and he wanted to pay off the land loan on the farmland around it.

 
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Post by johnjoseph » Fri. Aug. 13, 2021 10:33 pm

We grow potatoes as our primary, oats and barley for grain and our largest farmer in my county grow broccoli here in the summer and he does the same in Florida in winter. A house lot here has to be 100ft by 100 feet to build on...your well and septic must be 100 feet apart. Land use regulations vary by town, but in my town you can buy a farm and sub divide it into lots of 5 lots every 5 years or you pay a pretty penny. There's really not a heck of a lot for regulations here...nothing like I hear guys here talk about. You larger cities of about 6 to 10k, have stiff regs...but there's really only 4. If I want to build a garage, add on to my home or build a shed, I don't need a permit... I just have to report when its finished so they can assess for taxes. I don't bother though...they assess every 3 to 5 years so they eventually catch-up to you. When you build anything you have to stay 15 feet from the property line unless there is an easement, which with me has alway been verbal as it's family. I do all of my own electrical. Heating and plumbing work...just has to be inspected by a licensed professional upon completion for insurance purposes. We have a code enforcement officer, but all he inspects is sewer system install or replacement. Probably sounds a bit "backwoods or hickish" , but I like the simplicity not having people in your business per se. 4 homes on this homestead sitting on 22 acres, my uncle has the other 40, and the other 15 acres was sold as house lots in the early seventies...one school lot was sold in 1911 100ft x 100ft. The school house is gone and that is now back in family hands. The entire parcel was 75 acres and considered a half parcel...150 acres is a full parcel.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Sat. Aug. 14, 2021 3:16 am

johnjoseph wrote:
Fri. Aug. 13, 2021 6:13 am
It was in the farm bills years ago ....here's what I was speaking of...maybe I've misunderstood it.
The farm subsidy is a farm subsidy, doesn't necessarily apply to corn. You can easily argue it's an indirect subsidy but the farmers can only take advantage of it because of the demand for their product driven by the ethanol mandate.

Debating the farming subsidies get a little complicated because of their intended purpose. The market for your product is dependent on the whims of Mother Nature. If you have a good growing season you have plenty of product but it could be worthless. If there is a bad growing season there is high prices but no product to sell. The subsidy is used so they overplant insuring the food supply and keeping food prices in check. Without them the farmers would grow less and when a bad growing season occurs enjoy your $10 ear of corn.

No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on I think most of us can agree that preventing mass starvation is sound reasoning for a subsidy. Obviously corn grown for ethanol doesn't fall into that reasoning. Removing the mandate would take away the demand however there is significant consequences for that. Besides the farmers ethanol producers and refiners have spent hundreds of billions in capital investments to meet this mandate. There was a great quote from Tillerson when he was still the CEO of Exxon that went something like "Exxon will not be investing in taxpayer based energy programs because the second we do the government will pull the rug out from under this." They may not have had a choice with blending ethanol into their product but certainly on the supply side they did.

Similar thing could of happened in CA with the PG&E bankruptcy, they hold a lot of legacy agreements to purchase renewable power which is a lot more than current rates. That higher cost was driven by the higher cost of the technology at the time and they had no choice but to make those agreements because of.......mandates. They didn't renegotiate them but it was a possibility and if they did the owners of those renewable companies would of been left holding the bag. A lot of them being unable to recover their capital investment let alone make a profit.

Getting back to the ethanol subsidy, there was direct subsidy that went to producers and the refiners blending the product so you didn't see the cost at the pump. That was removed a few years back so you are now paying that with increased cost in gasoline, I don't know how much it is but it's not an insignificant amount.


 
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johnjoseph
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Post by johnjoseph » Sat. Aug. 14, 2021 6:23 am

"No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on I think most of us can agree that preventing mass starvation is sound reasoning for a subsidy."

Sound reasoning along with Tillersons debut on the subject. My "turn off" is ethanol....terrible on engines. I am still of the opinion that corn should be grown for food, then you get the subsidies. For all else, no subsidies. If we're paying more for the ethanol based gasoline on our end and on the years we have a terrible growing season...we pay more for fuel and food. That being the case, crop insurance should kick in, rather than a subsidy. I understand that either way the consumer pays, but it shouldn't be twice.

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Sat. Aug. 14, 2021 8:31 am

Several good posts above. I dont think theres much if any harm to vehicles made after around 2000 once they figured it out, but its often a real problem for carbed vehicles and usually a problem for small engines. Ive replaced 2 fuel pumps in the last 2 years (1973 and 1985 Fords), rebuilt the carb in the 1985, have a tiller that the carb needs rebuilding, and the rubber fuel line in the 1973 is shot. The vehicles were started and used on occasion but were parked with ethanol gas in them.

Who wants to spend 40 cents more for ethanol free gas? Maybe i do now, lol My fault on the tiller completely with what little gas it uses. Maybe the extra mileage would make up the difference with my trucks, Im not sure.

Its nice to have the option to add ethanol during lean oil times but its not a great product. Now they are raising the amount to 15%. if I use that at all in carbed vehicles I'll have to mix it with non-ethanol. I guess we are all paying subsides on either ethanol or directly to farmers so the cost is probably a wash.

 
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Post by johnjoseph » Sat. Aug. 14, 2021 8:47 am

And the same "wash" will has occurred with EV, it's all a wash as the R & D benefits everyone in some form or another. The simplest is increase on battery storage.

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