Snow Plow Gurus in Here

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 4:18 pm

I have a mid '90s Fisher Minute Mount, 2 wire, 9 pin. If you turn the headlights on or use the turn signal, the plow drops. Had this problem on and off for over 4 years. Last year wasn't bad, very little trouble with it and when it did, high beams and left turn signal were ok. Low beams and right signal it would drop. I changed the coupler connectors on the 9 pin (control side) 2 years ago and it performed flawlessly for a few storms and started doing it again. I called Fisher and spoke to techs twice. The first one said it can't do that, second one said he has no clue and cannot conceive how it is possible. I realize it's a good one but hoping you guys have some ideas.


 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 4:41 pm

I would check and see where the plow grounds.. Is there a ground wire in the whip? Or is it through the frame, if it is through the frame, sand or grind the mounting area clean of rust so it gets a solid connection.

If that doesn't work, next question is, can you shut the plow lights off and use just the truck lights, and still control the plow? Does it still act up?

 
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Post by pyro29 » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 4:52 pm

Check your Private Messages

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 5:16 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:I would check and see where the plow grounds.. Is there a ground wire in the whip? Or is it through the frame, if it is through the frame, sand or grind the mounting area clean of rust so it gets a solid connection.

If that doesn't work, next question is, can you shut the plow lights off and use just the truck lights, and still control the plow? Does it still act up?
I think the plow has a ground were the solenoid is, I'll clean that up tomorrow morning. Did look a bit rusty and is to the fender.

The lights are in harness with the truck and it recognizes the plow connection and relays swap the lights. Other than swapping the connectors on the truck and plow lights, not sure how I could do it.

I think you may have a point with the ground thing. I noticed the mounting hardware is very rusty (sitting all year), maybe run a jumper from the truck to the plow gear would proof that. I'll try that in the AM too.

I had this plow and harness on an '88 F450 and never had a problem. The '02 F350 has everything the same and it goes goofy. Sometimes the pump will just stay running, happened a few times.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 5:24 pm

CS, WD40 your plug in's. And YES, grounds suck--I ran mine right to the battery & have the same set up as you. Mine got all screwy & the WD on the plug prongs & female side fixed it. Any moisture really screws them up. Tape the plugs if that works

 
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Post by pyro29 » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 5:52 pm

The ground for both the headlamps as well as the cartridges comes from the ground post / bolt on the motor base (shared with the negative battery cable). You can check resistance between the motor ground and the cartridges but I don't think that is the issue. Sounds like a short to power. Try manipulating the harness, both truck and plow side, with the lights on and see what happens (watch your toes!).

Try applying ground to pin 5 on the truck side plug (with both plow harnesses unplugged). From there, test all pins on the truck side:
1= S1
2= Low Beam (power)
3= S2
4= S3

6= High Beam (power)

9= Drivers Side Turn Signal
10= Passenger Turn Signal
11= Park Lamps

S1 should have power ONLY when in lower / float
S2 should have power ONLY when angling left AND right
S3 should have power ONLY when angling left OR raising

Test all this and post your results.

You MUST apply ground to pin 5 to get power for the headlamps (it grounds the relays)
Last edited by pyro29 on Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 5:58 pm

freetown fred wrote:CS, WD40 your plug in's. And YES, grounds suck--I ran mine right to the battery & have the same set up as you. Mine got all screwy & the WD on the plug prongs & female side fixed it. Any moisture really screws them up. Tape the plugs if that works
That was my first though but I replaced them. It still comes and goes. I use the gook religiously and there is no sign of any grief there. The salt works its way up wires under the insulation from the terminal end so that is a place to look. What I don't understand is how the lift valve shuttles. Are their two solenoids, one to raise and one to lower or is it a latching thing? And is it power or ground that triggers the drop. I have to look that up.


 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 6:05 pm

pyro29 wrote:Check your Private Messages
pyro29 wrote:The ground for both the headlamps as well as the cartridges comes from the ground post / bolt on the motor base (shared with the negative battery cable). You can check resistance between the motor ground and the cartridges but I don't think that is the issue. Sounds like a short to power. Try manipulating the harness, both truck and plow side, with the lights on and see what happens (watch your toes!).
Thanks for posting the info on the main board. I have the same truck and plow and would like to have the info handy if mine starts acting up. Sounds like power is crossing somewhere...maybe try pulling one relay or the other for the headlights and see if the problem is on one circuit.

Last year the main solenoid on mine started acting up in the middle of a storm...a healthy spray of WD40 got it working until the storm was over and I was able to replace the solenoid. If all else fails, clean and moisture proof the connections like Fred suggested.

Does your plow totally suck the power out of the battery when also using the headlights and heater? Mine does...dims the lights and I can hear the blower motor slow down. I am considering some sort of alternator upgrade.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 6:19 pm

Wow, short to power. I'm not sure what that means. I did a search and crashed the internet. :)

OK, let me try this stuff. Seems like I might learn something. Going to try and figure out how that lift, hold, drop thing works.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 6:26 pm

Rob R. wrote:Does your plow totally suck the power out of the battery when also using the headlights and heater? Mine does...dims the lights and I can hear the blower motor slow down. I am considering some sort of alternator upgrade.
No, the lights don't dim or the pump groan. Doesn't seem to draw to much power. But the headlights are weak, I don't use low beams and the high won't get anyone flashing at you. May be that common ground pyro mentioned.

 
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Post by Lu47Dan » Thu. Jan. 21, 2016 11:09 pm

Clean all your grounds ans than add a copper washer to them( copper antisieze would not hurt either). Then if that does not cure the problem add a large gauge ground wire from the plow frame to the truck frame.
Dan.

 
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Post by pyro29 » Fri. Jan. 22, 2016 7:02 am

Lu47Dan wrote: add a large gauge ground wire from the plow frame to the truck frame.
Don't do this. Ground is not taken from the truck frame on a MM.

If your motor is able to function, which it obviously is if you can lift the plow, your ground, at least up to the motor, is good. That motor should draw 200 amps at dead head. If your up/left/right functions, especially up, are moving at what seems to be the regular speed (not slow), then you can assume that both your battery power and ground circuits are good (in this case, doing a simple ohm value test is not sufficient in measuring the ability of the cables to provide sufficient power and ground - but overall plow speed will be dictated by the motor / system health - so normal speed makes for a safe assumption).

The ground circuit (black w/orange tracer) goes from the park/turn ground, to the headlamp ground, to the grounds of all 3 cartridge coils, and terminates at the ground terminal on the motor flange, attached to the battery ground cable. You can disconnect the small bk/o wire from the ground terminal at the motor and also unplug each headlamp and Pk/TS bulb then ohm out each ground point back to the motor terminal eyelet but I think you'll find "normal" results with this test.

Try this: Disconnect the positive battery cable at the plow side of the motor solenoid (under the hood - this will prevent the motor from spinning during testing but leaves the ground intact). From there, remove the small black cover from the cartridges. Using a test light, probe S1 (w/y wire). You should ONLY see power when the control is in lower or float. Have a helper try all other plow functions as well as run through all the headlamps and turn signals. Power to this cartridge is the only way to get the plow to drop, other than a faulty quill or leaking cartridge itself. You should see power being applied to this circuit, during one of the tests that you perform, when the control is not commanding power to S1. Post your test results and we can go from there.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Jan. 22, 2016 7:07 am

A couple of things to clarify. One, when I say the headlights are dim, I mean the truck's lights, not the plow. They seem OK. I did add a heavy gauge wire direct to the negative battery post from the light harness. It had no impact, lights are still dim. And two, the plow won't drop if the joystick on/off switch is off and I use the lights/turn signal. Still weird. :lol:

Yes, plow up and down and swivel speeds seem fine. Everything functions even with the lights on, just the plow won't stay up. It will raise but drop as soon as you stop raising it.

 
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Post by pyro29 » Fri. Jan. 22, 2016 7:29 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Yes, plow up and down and swivel speeds seem fine. Everything functions even with the lights on, just the plow won't stay up. It will raise but drop as soon as you stop raising it.
Ok, wait...the plow drops as soon as you stop raising it? Regardless of whether the headlights or turn signals are on?

That is different...and an easy fix. Give me a call.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Jan. 22, 2016 7:32 am

CS--my neg. wire went from plow motor to batt. Also, my plow will not drop w/ control box switch off. How is your fluid--are you using the blue stuff?
coaledsweat wrote:A couple of things to clarify. One, when I say the headlights are dim, I mean the truck's lights, not the plow. They seem OK. I did add a heavy gauge wire direct to the negative battery post from the light harness. It had no impact, lights are still dim. And two, the plow won't drop if the joystick on/off switch is off and I use the lights/turn signal. Still weird. :lol:

Yes, plow up and down and swivel speeds seem fine. Everything functions even with the lights on, just the plow won't stay up. It will raise but drop as soon as you stop raising it.


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