Porsche 944+Chevy V8

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Tue. Aug. 27, 2019 4:12 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Sat. Aug. 24, 2019 7:41 am
I'm up to part 16 and still in awe. Come on Don move it along.
Woops!
Sorry CN, I forgot to give an update for this weekend. Not much to report. Friday afternoon the ABF Freight truck arrived to pick up the Porsche engine. Apparently they didn't realize that a T T won't ever, in any way, make it up my driveway. The driver and I successfully figured it out though.

Right after the truck left, Reece's arrived with 6 ton of Rice coal. We filled the garage bin with about 5 ton. Then we dumped what was left into the basement bin. All that was enough fun for a Friday.

Saturday was all lawn mowing, yard work and burning the brush pile. Sunday I was to pooped to turn a wrench.

Back to the car...

I'll get some picks of this later but I figured I would have a look at the Torque tube while the engine was out. What I saw was not good, the front bearing is bad. This means we are either sending the torque tube out to be rebuilt or buying a good used one.

Unfortunately, this changes the scope of this part of the project. To remove the torque tube, the transaxle and rear suspension have to be removed. Now I have to figure out if we should rebuild the trans while it's out or not. And, I have to figure out if we should put bigger torsion bars in the rear suspension while it's out.

That stuff will take more time and more money. I don't really want to spend the money right now and I don't have the time.

-Don

 
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scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Wed. Aug. 28, 2019 8:12 am

Do whatever you can to strengthen the transaxle now or you will be removing it again.

 
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Post by StokerDon » Sat. Aug. 31, 2019 11:07 am

scalabro wrote:
Wed. Aug. 28, 2019 8:12 am
Do whatever you can to strengthen the transaxle now or you will be removing it again.
Your probably right. In the old days it wouldn't have been that big of a deal to pull the trans again. These days, I would rather spend more time driving the car than working on it. So I guess we will be re-doing the trans and putting bigger torsion bars in the rear.

The old 3.0 Porsche engine was shipped out last Friday and has safely arrived at it's new home.


Yesterday I picked up the new 6.0 Chevy V8 on the way home from work. It's not the same unit that I looked at 2 weeks ago, that one was missing a lot of parts. This one is much more complete and the bone yard will be getting me the starter, alt and air flow sensor in the coming week.
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The engine computer or "ECU". This is where we might run into a problem. This engine/ECU/throttle body is "Drive By Wire" (DBW). I would really like to switch this engine over to "Drive By Cable" (DBC), but I don't know if this ECU can drive an "Idle Air Controller" (IAC). This is necessary for a drive by cable system to control idle speed.
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I know it can be done with the older ECU's because they were designed for DBW or DBC throttle bodies. I wasn't really planning on getting an engine/ECU this new so I didn't realize this would be a problem. Hopefully we can work this out.

I would really like to run Drive By Cable because it's less complicated and you get better feel on the throttle peddle.

Here are some pics of the drive shaft/torque tube. You can't really tell from the pics but that front bearing has problems.
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The driveshaft is basically a 25cm steel shaft that splines into the clutch disc in front and is coupled to the trans input shaft at the back. It's kind of like having a very long input shaft on the trans.
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The torque tube is just a long tube that connects the clutch bellhousing to the trans. The driveshaft runs in 4 large bearings that are pressed into the torque tube.

It is possible to change the torque tube bearings yourself but it's a pretty big job. A rebuilt one is only $350 but the shipping on something that is 7 feet long is a problem. A good used local one is only $150.

So, unfortunately, instead of moving forward with this project, we will be taking the rest of the suspension and drive-train apart for repairs and upgrades.

-Don

 
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Post by LouNY » Sat. Aug. 31, 2019 9:49 pm

The last torque tube and transmission I worked on was in my 63 Pontiac Lemans convertible with the great big slant 4 engine.
I'd say that yours had just a bit more omph going through it and quite a bit more potential feeding down it.
Quite the project good luck with her.

 
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scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Mon. Sep. 02, 2019 8:47 am

Call these guys Don before you open up the transaxle.

https://californiamotorsports.net/collections/all


 
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Post by StokerDon » Tue. Sep. 03, 2019 7:46 pm

scalabro wrote:
Mon. Sep. 02, 2019 8:47 am
Call these guys Don before you open up the transaxle.

https://californiamotorsports.net/collections/all
Thanks! I'll keep it under advisement but I typically don't trust anything that has "California" in the title. :lol: Also, I would imagine the shipping would be more than taking it somewhere local.

Speaking of local, I talked to a guy that builds these things today. He is somewhat local, about 1.5 hours away. He also has a lot of useful 944 knowledge so I picked his brain a bit.

1) Torque tube. The reason my driveshaft is not touching the front bearing is because there is a nylon sleeve between the driveshaft and the inner bearing race. This is obviously busted on mine. Also, I have what is called a "Split torque tube". The earlier non-split torque tubes are better for high HP.

2) The 944 turbo trans actually has longer gearing than my S2 trans has. This would suit the V8 better so we may be trading in the old trans.

3) Rear torsion bars vs. coil overs. For a street can the torsion bars are better because they act progressively. This helps smooth out bumps. He also suggested progressive rate springs for the front for the same reason.

Now that I have some very useful information, we can forge the way ahead. All this will be taking a lot more time and cost a bit more but at least when it's done, it will be done.

-Don

 
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Fri. Sep. 06, 2019 8:56 am

A video update from earlier in the week describing where we are and the things that have to be taken apart to get the torque tube out.


-Don

 
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Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sat. Sep. 07, 2019 12:25 pm

Last night we got the transaxle out of the car.
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I talked with Black Sea R&D about rebuilding the torque tube. I learned a lot about Porsche torque tubes from this talk. The "split" torque tube like this one, was a quick fix by Porsche to cope the the extra vibration from the larger 3.0, 4 cylinder engine. Unfortunately, this "split" causes the front torque tube bearing to walk around over time.

This walking around brakes the sleeve between the inner race and the driveshaft. This in turn causes the front of the driveshaft to whip causing clutch, spline and pilot bearing ware. So, now we are shopping for a good used torque tube to send out for a rebuild.

The labor for the torque tube rebuild is very, very reasonable at $195. The Super Bearings that are needed for this type of application are very pricey at $750 for all 4. Add on the shipping to and from PA to GA for something that is 6 feet long and 80 pounds and we are way over a grand.

Since this is going to cost a lot more than slapping in a $75 used, 30+ year old torque tube, we are going to hold off on the trans replace/rebuild for now.
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There is currently nothing wrong with this trans so this is the best option. The trans R&R is not very difficult and is a whole lot easier than the torque tube R&R so the torque tube has priority.

If we have time, we might remove the side cover on the trans, pull the diff out and install a cheap limited slip just for fun.
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Here's the back end of the torque tube.
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The rear suspension needs to be removed next. I found a nice video that does a good job of showing the removal process.

Once the rear suspension is out, we will be replacing the torsion bars and most of the bushings.

Before we put it back together we will be doing a little fuel system work and a LOT of cleaning up in there!
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-Don

 
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Sep. 08, 2019 7:27 pm

Here a little video showing the transaxle and what is going on at the back of the car.


-Don

 
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Post by scalabro » Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 6:50 am

Just don’t attempt burnouts as the transaxle with turn into a pile of steel shavings in short order. Always roll the throttle on gently and never hammer first gear or you will become a pro at box changes.


 
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Post by Qtown1835 » Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 10:25 am

scalabro wrote:
Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 6:50 am
Just don’t attempt burnouts as the transaxle with turn into a pile of steel shavings in short order. Always roll the throttle on gently and never hammer first gear or you will become a pro at box changes.
V8 Porsche and no burnouts? :no1:

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 10:49 am

If we have time
Is this the royal we or is some other sucker along for the ride.

This project should suck all the excess energy out of you and we can get back to rebuilding coal stoves. Any remaining spunk should be drained off by coming over to my farm and fixing broken chit that we no longer have the energy to complete.

 
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959Axeman Anderson130M, 1991Axeman Anderson130M, BairMatic BMC-500/Van Wert VA400 Stoker, down to 1Van Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 6:53 pm

Qtown1835 wrote:
Wed. Sep. 11, 2019 10:25 am
V8 Porsche and no burnouts? :no1:
I wouldn't say NO burnouts. You have to roll into it like Scalabro said. While this little transaxle is pretty strong compared to others, it's not anything like a Ford 9 inch.

These cars also have very good traction that makes it even harder on the transaxle. Driving it carefully off the line and then rolling into it should still give us some tire smoke.

-Don

 
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Sep. 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Not much of an update this weekend.

I was all set to drive out to Hagerstown this morning but the guy I was going to see called me. He said he dropped the torque tube I was going to buy while moving it out of the shed with the forklift. It the fall chipped the nose of the driveshaft where it sits in the pilot bearing. He is going to remove one from another car this week.

The good news is he has a set of good rear Koni shocks and front struts for cheap. I'm also getting a pair of 30mm rear torsion bars and 300 pound front springs from him. Suspension setup wise I now only have to buy the 19mm adjustable rear sway bar. We are also going to get new suspension bushings.

-Don

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