Portable backup generator code questions

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi guys

I know that many of us in rural areas keep a portable gasoline powered generator on hand in times of power outages. Most of our Northernmost coal burning friends depend on them as a matter of life and death.

My grandfather purchased a small Robin Subaru 5800 watt generator back in the mid - 1990s for this home I currently live in. A local electrician was hired to install a switch box so that it was not possible to back-feed any current to avoid electrocuting a lineman. The generator power cannot be turned on unless the mainline is off.

My brother was recently doing a kitchen renovation and had a very reputable local electrician doing his work. He asked him if he would install a generator hookup for backup purposes and he flat-out refused. It was mentioned that he did not want to get into any trouble over it.

So what goes on here? I thought as long as any such action is done according to code then nothing could be liable. Is there any such code specific to backup generators or is it simply an illegal action?

We are in the heart of dairy country here and every small farm for as far as I can see has a PTO powered generator, at times this is the only way to get the milking done in the event of a storm. I must be missing something here.

Please, your thoughts.


 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 6:18 pm

Me being the outlaw that I am, backfeeds his breaker box thru a 220 breaker.. it's all good as long as switches are thrown in the right sequence, I take my time with it and think carefully :lol:

 
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 6:31 pm

Speculate that his refusal was other than NEC issues.

Refusal, IMO, was to avoid a call back as typically home owners are out of touch with what their genny can a cannot do...sooo want to blame or find fault with the guy who hooked it all up if/when there comes an issue.
If one refuses then they are guaranteed to never get any call back from a confused and/or disappointed customer.Crappy gennys eat expensive large appliances and TV's quite regularlly.
Policy such as that helps slow down all that follows...especially the referral from the first guy to the next guy.

It's nice if one can pick and choose his work. :)

 
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Post by LouNY » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 7:19 pm

There may have been a miscommunication with the electrican,
was he wanting a whole house transfer switch installed,
double pole double throw or a smaller sub panel type generator panel or a less expensive generator interface;
https://www.amazon.com/GE-TC10324R-Non-Fusible-Em ... B004Q0AS0C
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HS2L3O/ref=sspa_dk_ ... s9dHJ1ZQ==
https://www.interlockkit.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1829

The first and third options are my preferred ways to go.

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 7:25 pm

Thanks for the replies.

It was all second-hand information so I’m not sure there was anything specific discussed but mainly what I understood was that he wouldn’t do it under any circumstances. I just found it really odd, this is a major electrical contractor in our area that I’m talking about. I just never heard such a thing.

Larry if I understood you correctly there is nothing illegal about it as long as the NEC code is followed and the home owner must understand how to use it?

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 7:34 pm

Here is what I have, right wrong or in between. The cutout switch is the top left on the small sub-panel. The second photo is the main breaker box too.

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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 10:13 pm

I agree with mcgiever, it must be just a refusal of work and or liability.. if you have isolated the grid hot legs from the panel box, via a transfer switch or just flipping the breaker, I don’t see any way possible to back feed power, the neutral wire is bonded to the ground rod so, only thing after the transformer is the two hot legs, or 3 if on 3 phase. Just me speculation and thoughts..

FYI I back feed with a 25,000 watt PTO generator off my 35 hp new holland, it consumes some fuel but wouldn’t trade it for the world lol I can run everything and anything in my panel box and it’s nice clean 60 hertz power.


 
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 10:16 pm



Larry if I understood you correctly there is nothing illegal about it as long as the NEC code is followed and the home owner must understand how to use it?
Yes, exactly.
Jobs that take unwanted 'risk' are shunned...that's how big contractors got where they are today.
Last edited by McGiever on Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 10:20 pm

If done properly no issues of back feeding the main line...
The cutout prevents power back feeding when the genny is on...
The electrician most likely just doesn't want to do that kind of work...
Who knows the back story...

 
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Dec. 04, 2019 10:30 pm

The back story is let somebody else do them...cause we ain't starving without them...and too much risk...

 
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Post by Toddburn » Thu. Dec. 05, 2019 5:48 am

Cj no code violations in PA. My neighbor is a electrician. Pro tran transfer switches are a excellent product. Just buy one from a electric supply house. You can isolate important things you need to run so you don’t overload smaller generators.

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Dec. 05, 2019 8:05 am

See, DIY, and assume your own risks, and no 'call back' to contractor...
Kitchen remodels are predictable outcome with little hassles to follow.

 
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Post by gjambor » Thu. Dec. 05, 2019 5:12 pm

I do like Lightning says. I backfeed both legs of the circuit breaker box. I put a locking type generator outlet right under my box in the garage, installed the proper plug on the generator feed wire and a 20 amp 220 breaker in the box. . When power is out, I throw the main to off and clip a red flag to it. I put all breakers to off. Start generator, connect plug to outlet , turn on 220 breaker, flip on needed circuits one at a time. I had previously measured the amperage draw of everything that is a power user in my house and load the circuits accordingly . A clamp type ammeter is all you need. I also wired a regular electrical outlet on the incoming side of the main breaker. This ouflet is only used when power is out. I plug a portable radio into it and set the volume to loud. When the power company restores service , I hear the radio and know to shut off my generator.

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Thu. Dec. 05, 2019 5:32 pm

Thanks for cleaning this up some for me. All very valuable information and I appreciate the help. Forwarding the findings onto little bro now.

 
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Post by Toddburn » Thu. Dec. 05, 2019 5:39 pm

Just want to throw this out there. I know it can be done shutting off the main to feed a service panel however I have seem multiple times over the years on older services once shut down they do not come back up when restoring power. Older breakers become obsolete or very expensive then you end up changing the whole main service box out. Back feeding can cause injury or death to linemen. Was just at a power company safety meeting and it was discussed.


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