Mega Solar Farms

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 3:39 am

So I have just been hit with this dilemma and have battled back and forth with how I feel about it. In the picture the dark shaded spots are the farmers that have already signed up and is the current layout. This covers 2 square miles and chewing up over 1200 acres of prime farm land. My property is in the upper left of the picture and my family has farmed this ground for a long time. My children make the 5th generation to live in this house on the original farm. My grandparents have just passed away in the last couple years and the last 70 acres has been sold to our cousin a year ago so I was happy to see it is staying in the family.....but now this. They are offering $1000 per acre where the panels sit and $400 where the panels don't cover in the field...the fence will be setback so the panels will not cover every inch. I can get where the farmers are coming from, it's a no brainer financially but I am struggling as to which side to take. Only 1 land owner (my cousin and he signed up) lives where these are going, the rest are large farm owners who live in a different county. This is a 30 year minimum deal which will probably be the rest of my life. I guess you can say I am for solar but is hypocritical to say I want it, just not in my backyard. This I believe would be the largest in Michigan and the new Governor has changed the laws with farmland tax programs as most all these farms are tied up in a government tax break deal...Public Act 116. I understand this is going on all over the country right now and just can't decide which way to go? I understand my property values will plummet but I planned on dying here anyway but I guess it would screw my kids if they ever decided to sell? We fought off wind turbine farms here a couple decades ago and now this? What do you guys think and are any of you going through this in your neighborhood? Most of the neighbors (non are farmland owners) are losing their minds over this and maybe I should also?

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Post by warminmn » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:31 am

Im sure I will be going thru the same in just a few years. Talks are going on already as I have 2 major power lines within half a mile, so its choice land for it. I can easily picture your situation as 2 sections of farmland as my house is the lone house lived in, in my 640 acre section. 1000 acres is not the whole world but its your world.

I guess as long as they arent blinding me with reflections I wont mind. They are better than the windmills that so far have stayed miles away, even though I can see 200 of them. They are also better than having a multitude of new houses moving in. Or almost as bad, large factory pig or turkey farms. Too me, but not all, its better than building new nuclear power plants too.

Its often bad when land is owned by those that dont live there as they dont have the land connection that people like you have. Then its just a business. Thats what the factory livestock farmers often are too, living elsewhere.

Its bad, but could be worse. At least thats my opinion. They are paying $1000 per acre per year???? That would be hard not to take.

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:45 am

warminmn wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:31 am


They are paying $1000 per acre per year????
$1000 that the panels sit on and the areas around where they build the security fence will be paid $400 and yes that is per year....I would do it also! I think I am going to try to make this a possible business opportunity, someone has to mow the grass and I also have a full fab shop right in the heart of it all. Maybe I can talk them into putting a couple panels in my yard to power my house!

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 9:14 am

Laws must catch up. Large installs should use pourous and elevated installs in agricultural areas, so crops still grow.

Or heliostats...

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 10:12 am

swyman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:45 am
$1000 that the panels sit on and the areas around where they build the security fence will be paid $400 and yes that is per year....I would do it also! I think I am going to try to make this a possible business opportunity, someone has to mow the grass and I also have a full fab shop right in the heart of it all. Maybe I can talk them into putting a couple panels in my yard to power my house!
That is somewhere around 4 times land rent for farming and it would give the land some rest. The one problem that can happen is in 10 years that $1000 could be chicken feed and they are committed, cant back out. It has happened with windmills to a certain degree. But that is a lot of money to stick in the bank right now and hard to pass up.

I would be concerned about what they put underground too, as has been mentioned.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 11:12 am

I imagine there would be percentage of access roads between rows or blocks @ the $400. rate that drive down that @ $1000. rate...so removing what looks like gold may really just be some brass...

Those access roads will see regular use well beyond installation until all is eventually abandoned.

What is the "TRUE" $/acre after the 'bait' number is adjusted down to 'real' number? Cause this is then the 'real' bottom line $/acre...
What happens to land if/when leaser walks away? What is the land value for your heirs at this point?

BTW: Have you considered hemp as a crop? Probably beats the heck out of cabbages...

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 1:45 pm

Just be very careful not to get your hopes up. What you likely have there is not a lease, but a lease option. This went all around our area about 6 months ago. Many guys around here are selling the dairy herds due to the depressed prices.

Everyone thought they hit the gold mine, several farms were offered deals that were too sweet to walk away from. Turned out that they were not offering a lease but only a lease option. This was nothing more than to tie a guys land up over a period of time with little to no intention of actually building these panels. One farm was located not far from here in Blue Knob near the ski resort... one of the highest points in PA. They see the sun there for a total of 3 days in August. The only thing they look at is Google Maps, they wouldn’t even come out to see what they were bidding on.

One good friend of mine was considering it and after racking up $$$ in attorneys fees, realized what it really was and ran away from it as fast as he could.

I’m not trying to be a downer... just be VERY careful. These guys around here got nothing but a royal screwing over this.


 
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Post by Hambden Bob » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:37 pm

Yeah,Swy! You really have to do Your Business Boy Homework on this one! You really need to ensure that they're not going to throw the Shvence to 'Ya!! Enlist the help of some Landowner Groups in Your Area. Get the straight story on these Slicky Solar Boys Performances in other Rural Areas! See if they've reinvented themselves along different identities....
Next week,We'll tackle Your Gut-Wrenching Emotional Family Heritage Issues and Dilemmas regarding this Pandora's Box Deal!!

 
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:39 pm

Had our family Christmas today and asked my BIL as he lives near some solar farms. It just so happened that his sister had recently had an offer. It was $1000/acre for 10 acres for 10 years. Part of a bigger setup nearby. A straight 1000, no lower amount for roads. She turned it down as she didnt want to look at them. The farm rent is probably 225-250 or close.

What I dont get is if its so great why arent they just buying land to use and then sell it when their done, probably for close to the same amount? I know property taxes are high but doing the math, it just doesnt make sense if its 1000/acre a year to rent when they could buy.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:57 pm

Same speculation went through here ahead of the shale gas plays. Some land owners got locked in for peanuts and missed the bigger money that came later. Although the husksters played neighbor against neighbor to not be left out...was a real feeding frenzey Nothing much to look at or to be seen. One well pad can be a hub for many wells, wagon wheel horizontial spokes.
All about the royaltys..and keep on farming while royalty checks keep coming in. Here and there a pipeline inter-connect, that payes too.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 11:28 pm

The question is who pays for the decommissioning of the solar farm...
Panels are good for 10 years then start to degrade...
What happens in 10 years if the solar people break the lease...
What is their buyout penalty...
Follow the money...
If they are paying 4 times the current market value for the land...
Something is buried in that contract...
Read the fine print...
Keep your land...
Service the panels...

 
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Post by swyman » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 2:51 am

McGiever wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 11:12 am

BTW: Have you considered hemp as a crop? Probably beats the heck out of cabbages...
Funny you mention that, I have been researching like crazy and went to an 8 hour seminar a few weeks ago. In reading all the hardships involved I have decided NOT to plant it. There are just to many unknowns and 2 of the biggest concerns for me is drying and selling. 1500-2000 plants per acre and to grow for oil you need to treat it like marijuana and dry the plant. I could probably dry maybe 2 acres in my shop but then I don't have the proper equipment to provide the environment to properly dry the plants. The cost is just more than I am willing to chance. Cost per acre to plant is around $10-12k then added cost for the drying equipment. If all that goes as planned we run into the fact that there is just not enough processors at the moment and processing equipment will bury you over $100k if you wanted to go that route then you would have to have the finances to purchase the product from farmers. Plus the bodies you would need to cut, hang, buck, and package. Just way to much risk for me to take and to many ways to fail. My buddy is going to lease my ground for a year and do it but I want no part. I wish him well but I predict it will be a disaster. Also seems that there will be a lot of farmers in the state jumping on the hemp train next year so the market will be flooded and processors will be slim....for now. I'm sure that will change as the industry takes off but need time for more equipment to be developed and seed companies to be able to produce a guaranteed product. They have feminized seeds but still are not guaranteed plus they need to stay under the current THC level of .03%. I have read that Kentucky was successful in raising the THC level to 1% and there are groups in Michigan lobbing to get that changed here which would help a lot.

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 2:58 am

CapeCoaler wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 11:28 pm
The question is who pays for the decommissioning of the solar farm...
Panels are good for 10 years then start to degrade...
What happens in 10 years if the solar people break the lease...
What is their buyout penalty...
Follow the money...
If they are paying 4 times the current market value for the land...
Something is buried in that contract...
Read the fine print...
Keep your land...
Service the panels...
That's just it, so many what if's.... and all I read about is how we need to get away from fossil fuels. Seems the whole country (media) is really shoving this down our throats. Unfortunately I am not a player in any of this. I only have 8 acres left of my families farm and they only want large land tracts... I am just going to be surrounded by this.

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 3:01 am

warminmn wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:39 pm


What I dont get is if its so great why arent they just buying land to use and then sell it when their done, probably for close to the same amount? I know property taxes are high but doing the math, it just doesnt make sense if its 1000/acre a year to rent when they could buy.
I think the initial cost would be to great. Most of the tillable farm ground around me is selling for $6000/acre and up. It's hard to justify how these farmers can buy this ground for that cost and still turn a profit.....for the grain farmers anyway. My brother in laws are major players in the cabbage industry around here and they are absolutely killing it!

 
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Post by swyman » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 3:13 am

To everyone else I didn't quote, I am not a player in this since I only own 8 acres but I will be surrounded. This has just stirred such an uproar in the neighborhood as only one of the residents live here that own the land where these are going. I mean just getting to be a nasty mob! My feelings are I don't want to look at them if I had a choice but I don't know if they can be stopped. The reason they picked this area is my township has no zoning restrictions. I do know the board is really not in favor of this so that may help us? I am just gonna leave my "No mega solar farms" signs in the yard and kind of lay low and see what happens. I do not want to lose friends/family over this.


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