Is anyone pre-buying this year?

 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 8:42 am

I mean, $500+ for a pallet of 60 40-pound bags? The cheapest I've found is $399/ton for "you come with your own trailer and it ain't bagged".

Is anyone holding out hoping that prices will go down? Or are we all banking on continued increases and pre-buying as much as we can right now?


 
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Post by tcalo » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 8:59 am

I’m stocked up for this season and with the weather being so warm I’m hoping I have extra to float me into next season. I’m holding off on buying until the summer.

 
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Post by fig » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 9:14 am

I’m not burning coal. I don’t know how anyone could afford it. Just makes me realize how poor I am. 😆

 
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Post by nut » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 9:30 am

Pre buying at the height of the heating season is probably not a good idea.

 
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Post by lincolnmania » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 9:36 am

Summer has always been the best time to buy. who knows this year!

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:22 pm

fig wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 9:14 am
I’m not burning coal. I don’t know how anyone could afford it. Just makes me realize how poor I am. 😆
I'm burning coal. So I must be rich. Bizzaro world.

No one is pre-buying coal. Can you even do that ? I had a hard time ordering coal early this season in July .. no one was shipping coal until end of Sept. Most declined my July order for a Sept. delivery except one. I saved a couple hundred $$ ordering in July.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 2:17 pm

I'm stocked for a couple yrs. Current prices are kinda scary. Time will tell.!!!!


 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 2:26 pm

FOilCompanies wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 8:42 am

Is anyone holding out hoping that prices will go down? Or are we all banking on continued increases and pre-buying as much as we can right now?
I am expecting prices will be the same or a bit less next season. I see no reason to stockpile now unless you are concerned about availability.

 
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Post by ziggy87 » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 7:30 pm

Depends on what fuel prices do for the cost. Like Rob said, I think prices will stay the same if not go down a little.

 
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Post by k-2 » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 8:13 pm

Im pre-planning, probably switching to gas heat for next year. I may leave the coal boiler in place just for a backup plan . At these prices the gas is probably cheaper in all but the very coldest months.

 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:44 pm

Fig: What then are you burning? Wood? (I managed to make it to the cold snap on wood. I've been using coal since. But I do have more wood I can access, once it starts warming up around March.)

Nut and Lincolnmania: This past summer, prices were ridiculous. Oddly enough, the commodity price is much lower now than it was in the summer. Right now it's at $182.00 a ton, which is a big drop from $279 on 11/30. It was over $300 from May through October and almost broke $400 in July. Seems that the logic of "it's usually higher during heating season", which seemed to hold in years prior to 2021, ain't holding these days.

Davidmcbeth3: Yes, people can pre-buy. At least I can through my current dealer. For me, this year, it would be buying a pallet or pallets and then stashing what I get... so it's not as much "pre-buying" as it is "buying now and stashing it for future use on the assumption that prices will go up".

I wonder how long it will take dealer prices to go down now that the commodity price is down significantly.

Does the plastic in coal bags deteriorate after a certain amount of time? Especially when stored resting on a damp dirt surface?

 
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Post by hank2 » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 11:54 pm

Well, the time to buy Anthracite in 2022 was prior to June. Other than hauling bulk from a few small family breaker operations in PA., not likely to see much of a future decline. It's just that so little of it is allocated to the home heating market in the US. As long as the trouble in Europe continues and sanctions on Russian coal exports to the US continue, the big guys are going to take their top money. As do all the other Anthracite exporting countries. Ukraine was a huge exporter and importer before as well. That's likely to continue for years. One of the bigger sellers of large order bagged has been selling none to home heat dealers.

If you can get 2400 lb. pallets of 60 bags for $500 and if it's known good coal, that may be as good as it will get. IF you can haul it or get it delivered for no extra charge. $8.33 a bag, if I did the math correct. Bagged has always been the hose down on value. In coal country, a 2000 lb. short ton of bagged is $450-$500. $400 a ton of bulk delivered is about as good as it gets as well. A little cheaper if you get a minimum of 4 tons. Unless you have the big equipment to haul multiple tons of bulk from a small breaker at $200-$300 a ton.

Bagged coal only appeared around 20 years ago. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it, so I'm not sure. All of them used a woven type of plastic bag until recent years. Those degraded very quickly in the sun or just being outside. I believe that they've all switched to the solid plastic bag, which seems to hold up much better. Direct sunlight still isn't a good idea.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 2:12 am

FOilCompanies wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:44 pm


Does the plastic in coal bags deteriorate after a certain amount of time? Especially when stored resting on a damp dirt surface?
Most bags are 4 milli-inch thick linear low density polyethylene .. should be able to rest on damp surface without issue. Similar to bags that hold dirt and potting soil etc. Should deteriorate in about 5 yrs. when not protected from elements.

 
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Post by fig » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 8:49 am

FOilCompanies wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:44 pm
Fig: What then are you burning? Wood? (I managed to make it to the cold snap on wood. I've been using coal since. But I do have more wood I can access, once it starts warming up around March.)


I live on the prairie and wood is as expensive as coal. I used to be able to cut out of hedge rows but they have all been pushed in and burned because farmers don’t like them shading those few rows of crop. So I burn pellets which have increased a substantial amount in the last six weeks but still the cheapest thing going even if I burn a little more.

I wasn’t home during the cold snap so I just left the Enviro Omega one click above the lowest setting and it maintained the house at 44 degrees while I was away.

I have 1 ton of hard coal left from last year I am saving for colder weather. We’ve been blessed with a moderate winter apart from the recent cold snap.

I can get bit at a local coal mine for reasonable money but the last few loads I have picked up there have been mostly trash. I would say 40% fines and the coal size is mostly stoker size which is extremely difficult to burn in my setup. It’s unclear to me what has changed. The first few years it was much better. Mostly nut sized and probably only 10% fines. This mine is huge and mainly loads tractor trailers and rail cars. They have made several comments about it being difficult to load my trailer so maybe they are selling me trash to try and persuade me to stop buying it there. They don’t actually “want” to sell to the public they just do it as a courtesy . Who knows. I have stopped because it’s become nearly impossible to burn what they give me. I’ve been looking for a stoker but they are rare in these parts. So it’s pellets until things change.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 9:16 am

FOilCompanies wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:44 pm
Fig: What then are you burning? Wood? (I managed to make it to the cold snap on wood. I've been using coal since. But I do have more wood I can access, once it starts warming up around March.)

Nut and Lincolnmania: This past summer, prices were ridiculous. Oddly enough, the commodity price is much lower now than it was in the summer. Right now it's at $182.00 a ton, which is a big drop from $279 on 11/30. It was over $300 from May through October and almost broke $400 in July. Seems that the logic of "it's usually higher during heating season", which seemed to hold in years prior to 2021, ain't holding these days.

Davidmcbeth3: Yes, people can pre-buy. At least I can through my current dealer. For me, this year, it would be buying a pallet or pallets and then stashing what I get... so it's not as much "pre-buying" as it is "buying now and stashing it for future use on the assumption that prices will go up".

I wonder how long it will take dealer prices to go down now that the commodity price is down significantly.

Does the plastic in coal bags deteriorate after a certain amount of time? Especially when stored resting on a damp dirt surface?
5 dealers - two Tractor Supply + three independents - within ten miles and not one could get coal during the summer. Wasn't until late Oct that one dealer got a TT load of Blaschak bagged.

I've left plastic bags of coal sitting on the ground in direct sunlight, through winter and all summer long, and then used them the next year. The bags were strong as new.

Paul


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