Break Even Cost Poll- Coal vs Oil vs Gas vs Electric

What is your break even point before coal costs you more than your other heat source.

Poll ended at Tue. Sep. 27, 2022 6:21 pm

$200 or under per ton.
0
No votes
$201-$300 per ton.
1
9%
$301-399 per ton.
0
No votes
$400-499 per ton.
4
36%
$500-599 per ton.
1
9%
$600-699 per ton.
1
9%
$700-799 per ton.
1
9%
$800-899 per ton.
3
27%
$900-999 per ton.
0
No votes
$1000 and over per ton.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8108
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 6:21 pm

For those who like playing around with numbers, I hope this makes sense... Using the fuel cost calculator from this site, https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating, figure out the price you can pay for coal before the coal costs more than your other heat source, excluding wood unless you are buying it as that is often cut by ourselves. Dont forget to use the efficiencies of each stove or furnace, boiler, electric heaters. A close guess is close enough :) Theres electric for the blower also if you want to add that, or not, and other costs.

An example: Oil costs $5 a gallon and you run an old furnace that is 60% efficient. Per million btu's that cost is $6008. Your coal stove is also 60% efficient so coal would have to be over $900 a ton to be at a break even cost where oil would be cheaper than coal.

Myself I dont have a furnace but have a propane space heater. It claims 73% efficiency but I'll say its 68%. I can contract LP at $1.85 this year. I'll call my coal stove 65% efficient but I really have no idea what the real figure is and many of us dont, so guess. Dont rack your brain too much. So LP would cost me $2978 per million BTU. Coal would have to cost me about $485 per ton before it costs more than I would pay for propane with my inefficient LP space heater.

Im betting many here will still be happy using coal over their other heating choice. Just not as happy as last year.


 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 8:31 pm

I used 4 fuels that would be available to me with exception of firewood. Currently electric is $.235 per kilowatt.

Wood pellets = $485/ton coal
Fuel oil = $930/ton coal
Propane = $856/ton coal
Electric = $1375/ton coal

I'll be using coal that cost me $255 per ton for at least 2 years.

Attachments

Screenshot_20220906_201053.jpg
.JPG | 175.9KB | Screenshot_20220906_201053.jpg
Screenshot_20220906_200818.jpg
.JPG | 66.9KB | Screenshot_20220906_200818.jpg
Screenshot_20220906-200731_Chrome.jpg
.JPG | 72.7KB | Screenshot_20220906-200731_Chrome.jpg

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8108
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 9:34 pm

You have your options open Lee! Ive been cutting wood but have a ways to go. I am not getting propane. I'll wait to see if TSC has a black friday coal sale. If they do I'll get a ton or two of coal. If not, maybe half a ton to add to my half ton here now. I'll use coal in the coldest weather and wood in the other. I absolutely love sitting by a warm stove that propane cant really give me.

 
User avatar
BunkerdCaddis
Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 10:26 am
Location: SW Lancaster County
Stoker Coal Boiler: Bairmatic-Van Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Van Wert VW85H
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II working when I feel the desire, Waterford 105 out on vacation, Surdiac Gotha hiding somewhere
Coal Size/Type: pea/nut/rice/stove-anthracite, nut/stove bit when I feel the urge
Other Heating: oil fired hydronic

Post by BunkerdCaddis » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 10:40 pm

I usually figure it the other direction "what does oil have to be before it's cheaper" and a couple of years ago Fuel Oil would have to have been $0.95 to hit the line. :D those were happy days...

For what I have on the pile right now I got at the end of June and Fuel Oil would have to be $1.55 for it to be a wash. Going the other way Coal would have to get to $866.00 to break even with the Fuel Oil I bought in July :|

Am I happy about the higher price, no, but if I need coal and it's 1/3 the cost of heating with oil I'll still pay it. It is what it is.

I still have a ton of bit coal on hand that cost me $138.00/ton which equals Fuel Oil at $0.75/gal.

 
franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Location: Kent CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Post by franco b » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 10:48 pm

I use 3.6 gallons of oil as the equivalent of 40 pounds of coal.
If oil is 3.5 per gallon that is the equivalent of 12.6 for a bag of coal.

 
hank2
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat. Dec. 10, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Berks County
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1400 WH ciculator; 1880's small cannon in reserve
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: small New Yorker oil fired boiler; mostly used for domestic HW

Post by hank2 » Tue. Sep. 06, 2022 11:52 pm

Great to have some options. Mine are very limited. An oil-fired boiler hydronic heat and DHW and my hand fired coal stove. I do have electric resistance baseboard upstairs that only gets some use in the total of 3 shoulder months. Even if I had any money to do anything, there are no NG lines here and sunlight scarcely touches this property for much of the year. Heat pumps would be an expensive silly exercise in this 162 year old joint.

The oil boiler is rated at and tested at years ago to 86% efficiency. That's the boiler itself, not sure how you determine the baseboard heat output efficiency.
The DS coal stove carries a fantasy rating of 80% efficiency, but I suspect that an optimistic figure would be 60%.

At the $272 a ton I paid early summer for Anthracite, HO would have to be at $2.20/gal to be equal BTU's for a lot less work. Prior to 2022 I was paying $2.35 to $2.60 a gal for maybe 4 years. One 2020 fill up at $1.22/gal. At the $4.50/gal I paid in June for the last tank, coal would have to be at $555/ton to be equal. Future oil fill ups will be at least that $4.50 and likely more. Future coal buys will be $380/ton or much more, if there's any to buy. Bagged is already gone at some places. At $380/ton, oil would have to be $3.00/gal and I don't see that happening. And it's the real crappy, pump burning ULS diesel that they're now selling in Pa. Not required here like NY state.

My oil-fired boiler has to run year-round even with the coal stove to produce DHW. It's an indirect setup (a true invention of the devil). So DHW would be a little bit of a freebie side gig if heating only with oil. OTOH, the coal stove also takes care of my heating needs upstairs for the 5.5. to 6 mo. I'm running it. The electric use to heat even one of the BR's and a bath upstairs would be hundreds extra per winter.

After playing with coal in some form for about 35 of the last 45 years, I was ready to quit coal 2 years ago. Except for maybe a ton mid-winter. Some of the loads in recent years were fairly low quality and never sized right. I'm geezer status, have health issues along with a crappy knee and hip. What I have to do to move coal to get it into the house and into the stove is a bit much. That's my only option now but an extra $600 on 4 tons is painful.

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. Sep. 07, 2022 1:00 am

Coal@$625/ton and 60% efficiency...
Oil@$4.30/gal and 75% efficiency...
Own both so no equipment to buy...

Coal@$525/ton and 60% efficiency...
Heat Pump@$0.32/kwh and 275% efficiency...
But I would need to buy/install and wait for 10k rebate...

Oil would need to be below $1.90/gal to begin thinking about using it for heat...
Electric would need to be under 0.17/kwh or real world efficiencies be above 275% for the heat pump...
Until I have a sufficient off-grid solar install any heat requiring electricity...
Will have 'King Coal' providing redundancy for heat or be the primary heat source...


 
User avatar
anthony7812
Member
Posts: 5141
Joined: Sat. Mar. 12, 2011 2:04 pm
Location: Colley,Pennsylvania
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Anthracite

Post by anthony7812 » Wed. Sep. 07, 2022 12:25 pm

I’m in a situation where coal no longer is in my home. I’ve enjoyed the affordability of coal for many years and it allowed me to spend money and time on other options. Forever grateful. Coal is easier than wood, less work than wood but if your able bodied, it’s a bit more than burning wood if you can source it yourself at little to no cost.

However, I have an older wood oil combo furnace. The previous homeowners paid 85 bucks a month ( oil payment plan) to get through winter and about a cord of wood in the upstairs heatilator style fireplace. R 40 insulation in the attic and r19 in the walls. And the wind doesn’t blow here!!!! Feels kinda weird after 10 plus years of sideways weather.
Back on point, it’s 700 bucks for a triaxle load of cut split and delivered fire wood locally for me. I paid around 1250 for 4 tons of coal for this season. New owner of my previous home (cousin) gets to enjoy that little stipend haha. I might just order the wood and sip the oil before I make a big decision on where to go. It’s a forced air heating system and does have central air. It’s in extremely good shape for being close to 30 years old. New oil burner was put in around 2018 with new diffusers. The wood burning never was used. Homeowner broke his leg after 6 months of building this home (several surgeries and walked with a cane after ) and didn’t want to carry wood into the basement.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17977
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Sep. 08, 2022 4:16 pm

anthony7812 wrote:
Wed. Sep. 07, 2022 12:25 pm
I’m in a situation where coal no longer is in my home.
I'm in a situation where the oil boiler is no longer in my home. :D

At this point I don't really have a great alternative to coal without putting up a bunch of money. My next best option is probably propane, which I can currently get for $1.99 per gallon and is roughly on par with coal at $480 per ton.

I am hoping my next load of coal won't be more than $400 per ton, but we will have to wait and see what next year brings. I plan to heat the house with our minisplit as long as I can this fall to help conserve coal.

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Sep. 08, 2022 7:57 pm

I paid $217/ton back in 2020 for a TT load, fuel oil is around $4.95/gallon, fuel oil would have to be $1.20/gallon to break even if my math is correct. With the new heat pump installed I plan to do as rob does and hold off as long as I can to light the boiler and shut down as soon as I can, I have enough coal till 2025 spring, but I’m hoping with the heat pump I can go till 2026 spring. By then who knows what will be going on, but I am strongly thinking about geothermal..

 
coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Sep. 08, 2022 8:31 pm

I am in a quandary. Solar is a personal no as is geothermal and heat pumps. Solar just does not work for many months of the year in this cloudy chit hole and many horror stories from friends. Geothermal is a no as well. Coal just fits and works very well and I guessed all this stuff was coming and over 2 years have collected 50 tons of rice ... so. I also guess this EU horror will go on for years. Wood is also a no. I also suspect regular power failures in my future so I am looking at stove coal. That Red Cross and Sunnyside are absolute monsters. I can give all my other personal reasons but no one listens to an old fart and so on we go. I do have a moderate flow Artesian well .... hmmmmm

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 4:45 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Thu. Sep. 08, 2022 8:31 pm
I am in a quandary. Solar is a personal no as is geothermal and heat pumps. Solar just does not work for many months of the year in this cloudy chit hole and many horror stories from friends. Geothermal is a no as well. Coal just fits and works very well and I guessed all this stuff was coming and over 2 years have collected 50 tons of rice ... so. I also guess this EU horror will go on for years. Wood is also a no. I also suspect regular power failures in my future so I am looking at stove coal. That Red Cross and Sunnyside are absolute monsters. I can give all my other personal reasons but no one listens to an old fart and so on we go. I do have a moderate flow Artesian well .... hmmmmm
Why is geothermal a no?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17977
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 7:00 am

Even at retail prices it looks like I could do very well with firewood in an efficient appliance. I am not ready to start handling wood on a large scale, but if things really got bad I could add a woodstove to shoulder some of the load.

The heat pump is also looking good at current electric rates. I used 200% efficiency, which I think may be a bit conservative if I am only using it in mild weather.

Attachments

Screenshot 2022-09-09 065619.jpg
.JPG | 138.4KB | Screenshot 2022-09-09 065619.jpg

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8108
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 8:33 am

Rob R. wrote:
Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 7:00 am
Even at retail prices it looks like I could do very well with firewood in an efficient appliance. I am not ready to start handling wood on a large scale, but if things really got bad I could add a woodstove to shoulder some of the load.

The heat pump is also looking good at current electric rates. I used 200% efficiency, which I think may be a bit conservative if I am only using it in mild weather.
Are the highlighted prices the equal heat cost amounts? Nice chart.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17977
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 9:12 am

warminmn wrote:
Fri. Sep. 09, 2022 8:33 am
Are the highlighted prices the equal heat cost amounts? Nice chart.
The highlights are my local pricing, and they are lined up side to side in terms of equal heat content.


Post Reply

Return to “Coal Prices & Quality, Coal Dealer Inquiries & Reviews”