I get it!
Anthracite Price Per Ton for the 2022-2023 Heating Season
- McGiever
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Inflation is not up 100% on everything but coal is up 100% in some places. 20% on the low end. Oil continues to drop,gas is now $3.30 a gallon. The price of Heating oil is important as it directly competes with coal. For some reason thats not coming down as fast as gas. I was thinking about phasing out the coal when it was $200 a ton.hank2 wrote: ↑Sun. Sep. 25, 2022 11:20 pmFor those that don't view facebook. from Blaschak's page several days ago. I don't buy the doubled in cost claim on some of the items listed. Then again, the nothing fancy coffee I buy from online from Walmart or Amazon for $8.19 a 31 oz. can is priced at $13 for a smaller can in all the local supermarkets. Spank 'em while you can.
- nepacoal
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In Lehigh's case it's 165%. It was $170 picked up last year and they raised it to $450 a month or two ago. It's pretty obvious they are price gouging... Per the definition, it's a casebook example of gouging. I hear they recently lowered their price to $430. They might not have many local customers left once the EU situation ends.
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And a lot of these small operations will get new business if they can live thru biden regulations trying to put them out of business. Im trying to diversify my supply sources. I now have 3 small suppliers where before i had 1 large one.nepacoal wrote: ↑Mon. Sep. 26, 2022 12:08 pmIn Lehigh's case it's 165%. It was $170 picked up last year and they raised it to $450 a month or two ago. It's pretty obvious they are price gouging... Per the definition, it's a casebook example of gouging. I hear they recently lowered their price to $430. They might not have many local customers left once the EU situation ends.
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You're doing a lot better on gasoline than us. It's just dropped to $3.85 for sub regular. Pa. has super road fuel taxes at the pump level and at the distributor level.k-2 wrote: ↑Mon. Sep. 26, 2022 11:38 amInflation is not up 100% on everything but coal is up 100% in some places. 20% on the low end. Oil continues to drop,gas is now $3.30 a gallon. The price of Heating oil is important as it directly competes with coal. For some reason thats not coming down as fast as gas. I was thinking about phasing out the coal when it was $200 a ton.
What gets me is that when production or supply costs go up 10-30 Percent, the retail price gets a whacking for 50 percent or more. No one is scared of price gouging charges.
- McGiever
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Really???
Is Biden messing with coal regulations??
Can I read about this somewhere?
Thought Biden might see that being able to send coal and NG across the pond was a “good thing”. Who would want to undo that???
- franpipeman
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if you factor propane efficiency in a condensing boiler at 95% over coal with 375 per ton at 67 percent propane is more btus for the buck
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My supplier told me they are forcing more regulations on him various expensive test is what he said ,said he not sure he can keep going. I dont think he has any reason to lie about that. He only raised his coal a small amount to cover his expenses and what he pays for mine run. Biden has said during the campaign he will put coal and oil of business. And he doing a good job on that so far.
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I work in the industry and as best I can tell, this is what is going on:
Prices are up for a few reasons, including inflation and generally high energy prices. However, the main reason for these astronomical price increases for anthracite is the war in Ukraine. Anthracite is relatively rare and has many industrial uses besides home heating. Ukraine has been a major exporter of anthracite (to a much larger degree than PA) for a number of years and none of that coal is making its way out of the country for obvious reasons.
Overseas companies dependent on Ukrainian anthracite are now trying to sources it here and are willing to pay huge premiums. Keep in mind that some of these companies are buying tens of thousands of tons per month, and since they have large operations dependent on anthracite, they will pay close to anything to get it. They need anthracite for its specific chemical composition not the btus. In all likelihood, these companies are paying even more for anthracite than the retail consumer, and probably well over $400/ton.
In response to these overseas opportunities, PA anthracite companies have either a) gone all in on overseas demand and refused to sell into the local retail coal trade b) decided to stick with the local consumer, ignoring overseas demand and keeping prices relatively low (these are normally smaller producers) or c) continued to sell into the retail coal trade but with the benefit of higher prices. It's supply and demand, and when two or three of the six largest PA anthracite producers decided not to sell into to the local market it caused a run on inventory of the remaining producers. Right now the entire industry is working on six and seven day a week schedules and doing everything possible to increase production in the short-run.
Unfortunately the biggest limitation to increased production is the long lead time on opening and expanding new mines. Moreover, since this is a global supply crunch for anthracite and not an actual increase in demand, companies are hesitant to invest too much in increased production. In a likelihood prices will come right back down to where they were. When is anyone's guess. Could be in six months or two years. In the meantime, keep in mind that if heating oil is at $4.50 per gallon, anthracite needs to be close to $900/ton to cost the same on a btu basis. These increased prices are certainly unwelcome, but anthracite is still an unmatched value for the consumer.
Prices are up for a few reasons, including inflation and generally high energy prices. However, the main reason for these astronomical price increases for anthracite is the war in Ukraine. Anthracite is relatively rare and has many industrial uses besides home heating. Ukraine has been a major exporter of anthracite (to a much larger degree than PA) for a number of years and none of that coal is making its way out of the country for obvious reasons.
Overseas companies dependent on Ukrainian anthracite are now trying to sources it here and are willing to pay huge premiums. Keep in mind that some of these companies are buying tens of thousands of tons per month, and since they have large operations dependent on anthracite, they will pay close to anything to get it. They need anthracite for its specific chemical composition not the btus. In all likelihood, these companies are paying even more for anthracite than the retail consumer, and probably well over $400/ton.
In response to these overseas opportunities, PA anthracite companies have either a) gone all in on overseas demand and refused to sell into the local retail coal trade b) decided to stick with the local consumer, ignoring overseas demand and keeping prices relatively low (these are normally smaller producers) or c) continued to sell into the retail coal trade but with the benefit of higher prices. It's supply and demand, and when two or three of the six largest PA anthracite producers decided not to sell into to the local market it caused a run on inventory of the remaining producers. Right now the entire industry is working on six and seven day a week schedules and doing everything possible to increase production in the short-run.
Unfortunately the biggest limitation to increased production is the long lead time on opening and expanding new mines. Moreover, since this is a global supply crunch for anthracite and not an actual increase in demand, companies are hesitant to invest too much in increased production. In a likelihood prices will come right back down to where they were. When is anyone's guess. Could be in six months or two years. In the meantime, keep in mind that if heating oil is at $4.50 per gallon, anthracite needs to be close to $900/ton to cost the same on a btu basis. These increased prices are certainly unwelcome, but anthracite is still an unmatched value for the consumer.
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Stoker Time, thanks very much for the excellent overview and explanation of the PA. Anthracite situation. I'm only a consumer, but everything I have read or researched for the past 4 or 5 months agrees with what you said. At some level, the running embargo (sort of) of N. Korean anthracite and the shut down of US imported Russian anthracite has added to the problem (for home heaters).Stoker Time wrote: ↑Tue. Sep. 27, 2022 9:24 pmI work in the industry and as best I can tell, this is what is going on:
Prices are up for a few reasons, including inflation and generally high energy prices. However, the main reason for these astronomical price increases for anthracite is the war in Ukraine. Anthracite is relatively rare and has many industrial uses besides home heating. Ukraine has been a major exporter of anthracite (to a much larger degree than PA) for a number of years and none of that coal is making its way out of the country for obvious reasons.
Overseas companies dependent on Ukrainian anthracite are now trying to sources it here and are willing to pay huge premiums. Keep in mind that some of these companies are buying tens of thousands of tons per month, and since they have large operations dependent on anthracite, they will pay close to anything to get it. They need anthracite for its specific chemical composition not the btus. In all likelihood, these companies are paying even more for anthracite than the retail consumer, and probably well over $400/ton.
In response to these overseas opportunities, PA anthracite companies have either a) gone all in on overseas demand and refused to sell into the local retail coal trade b) decided to stick with the local consumer, ignoring overseas demand and keeping prices relatively low (these are normally smaller producers) or c) continued to sell into the retail coal trade but with the benefit of higher prices. It's supply and demand, and when two or three of the six largest PA anthracite producers decided not to sell into to the local market it caused a run on inventory of the remaining producers. Right now the entire industry is working on six and seven day a week schedules and doing everything possible to increase production in the short-run.
Unfortunately the biggest limitation to increased production is the long lead time on opening and expanding new mines. Moreover, since this is a global supply crunch for anthracite and not an actual increase in demand, companies are hesitant to invest too much in increased production. In a likelihood prices will come right back down to where they were. When is anyone's guess. Could be in six months or two years. In the meantime, keep in mind that if heating oil is at $4.50 per gallon, anthracite needs to be close to $900/ton to cost the same on a btu basis. These increased prices are certainly unwelcome, but anthracite is still an unmatched value for the consumer.
I recently watched a couple of YT videos on coal. One was a few months old and featured a young guy visiting one of Reading A.'s mines. They told him that only 10% of their production goes to the home heating market. The other 90% went for steel making and a bit for pigment making. The other video was only a few weeks old. It was a news source interviewing one of the larger Australian Anthracite producers. Their income in 2021 was a little over 500 million $Aus. So far this year, it's well over $4 billion $Aus. That CEO expected demand to keep rising and prices to climb for several more years. Of course, that's there, not here.
Everyone's plan B is different, mine is the worst; oil-fired boiler and HWH/DHW. Due to way different efficiency ratings, my break-even coal cost for $4.50/gal heating oil is right at $550/ton anthracite. I would surely be out the door at $400-$450/ton.
- McGiever
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Gee, was no mention of Biden in all that!!
Some will continue to have stigmatism at all cost to place blame where they can fulfill their alter imagination. Huh
Some will continue to have stigmatism at all cost to place blame where they can fulfill their alter imagination. Huh
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Since you brought up the subject.
"Biden’s EPA Will Use New Regulations To Bury Coal Industry"
"President Joe Biden’s Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is placing new emissions regulations on coal plants to shut down the nation’s remaining coal-fired power stations, according to a Reuters interview with EPA Administrator Michael Regan published on Friday."
https://yournews.com/2022/07/29/2386327/bidens-ep ... -industry/
Last edited by k-2 on Wed. Sep. 28, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- McGiever
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- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Gee, it’s Biden’s EPA now!k-2 wrote: ↑Wed. Sep. 28, 2022 12:29 pmhttps://yournews.com/2022/07/29/2386327/bidens-ep ... -industry/
“Does the president oversee the EPA?
The agency is led by its administrator, who is appointed by the president and approved by the Senate. The current administrator is Michael S. Regan. The EPA is not a Cabinet department, but the administrator is normally given cabinet rank.”
- franpipeman
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sound like the anthracite coal business is booming, i dont think there are many if any anthracite burning coal plant is the USA . Is the culm plant near frackville still running ?