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ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 5:40 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Mon. Mar. 20, 2023 10:06 pm
What you "want" does not have anything to do with why there is such a huge difference in costs between here and there.

Paul
I have travelled the country to a decent degree. I used to own a large motor home. I spent about 25 years living in the Denver Suburban areas. I traveled a lot into Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Utah...

Speed limits in the aforementioned areas were higher than speed limits in New England. Wyoming would have 70 and CT was still 55. I think it is even higher now like 75 or maybe even 80. Why do I bring this up?

In my travels there would as always be some road construction. In those areas a highway could be getting resurfaced for miles and they would divert traffic to one lane on the opposing directions highway. When they did that it was with simple orange cones. Speed limits were still 70mph. So you are driving down these highways doing 70mph with oncoming traffic an orange cone away coming at you doing 70mph. I remember driving trucks with trailers or motorhome with car in tow and thinking nothing of the situation. Here in the Northeast when they do road construction they haul in all those concrete barriers.

The point is both states get a new road, it just costs way more in the Northeast than in the west to accomplish the same pavement.

Same thing goes for local work in New England. They often have 2 cops with cars for a simple repair on the side of the road. Other places just have a sign and a flagger supplied by the construction company.

A couple of years or so ago there was a storm in Connecticut that resulted in many power outages. Eversource got into trouble because it was perceived that they didn't do enough to prepare for the storm. So now you get stupid emails when a few rain drops are predicted to fall.

So just like everything else government gets into, once something happens, government establishes draconian rules and laws that never go away and end up costing lots of money.

Why do school busses stop at the train tracks and open their door?


 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 6:54 am

I spent several weeks in the Philippines in the mid 90's. At that time everyone in the USA had either Satellite TV or cable. I couldn't help but notice that the poor people had cable TV with HBO. How could they afford it? It appeared that the cable would rather sell their service for whatever they could get rather than not sell it to the poor.

I think I remember hearing that pharmaceuticals cost way more in the USA than they do in third world countries and that is attributed to someone having to pay for the R&D.

The utility company is not in business to make your life comfortable for as little as possible. Businesses want to minimize expenditures while maximizing profit. If they can charge and get paid $100 for something that costs them $0.99 why sell it for $1.50? This is especially true when it comes to monopolies that interact with the government like healthcare, utilities, any and all municipal services, education.....

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 9:18 am

ColdHouse wrote:
Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 5:40 am
I have travelled the country to a decent degree. I used to own a large motor home. I spent about 25 years living in the Denver Suburban areas. I traveled a lot into Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Utah...

Speed limits in the aforementioned areas were higher than speed limits in New England. Wyoming would have 70 and CT was still 55. I think it is even higher now like 75 or maybe even 80. Why do I bring this up?

In my travels there would as always be some road construction. In those areas a highway could be getting resurfaced for miles and they would divert traffic to one lane on the opposing directions highway. When they did that it was with simple orange cones. Speed limits were still 70mph. So you are driving down these highways doing 70mph with oncoming traffic an orange cone away coming at you doing 70mph. I remember driving trucks with trailers or motorhome with car in tow and thinking nothing of the situation. Here in the Northeast when they do road construction they haul in all those concrete barriers.

The point is both states get a new road, it just costs way more in the Northeast than in the west to accomplish the same pavement.

Same thing goes for local work in New England. They often have 2 cops with cars for a simple repair on the side of the road. Other places just have a sign and a flagger supplied by the construction company.

A couple of years or so ago there was a storm in Connecticut that resulted in many power outages. Eversource got into trouble because it was perceived that they didn't do enough to prepare for the storm. So now you get stupid emails when a few rain drops are predicted to fall.

So just like everything else government gets into, once something happens, government establishes draconian rules and laws that never go away and end up costing lots of money.

Why do school busses stop at the train tracks and open their door?
Let's try a more apples to apples comparison.

My "power company" is my local village "government" here in the expensive Northeast, right next door to you. And it doesn't get much more expensive than living in NY.

According to my friend the mayor, there are 42 such municipal, or co-op, power companies in NY State. They all have much lower rates than the big power companies. What they don't have is a bunch of middle-man companies each adding to the cost of electricity.

3.5 cents a KWH is all it takes to get our power from the St. Lawrance hydro. Add about 1 to 2 cents to that for a total of 5 to 5+ cents is for being supplemented by gas fired power plants for when the village is over the hydro allotment. A lot of homes here use some form of electric heat. In the coldest month this winter my bill got up to 5.6 cents a KWH.

Maybe you should start looking at all the companies that have their fingers in your power supply ? Or find out how these 42 places in NYS got such cheap power when the big NYS power companies are so expensive ?

Paul

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 9:40 am

Sunny Boy wrote:
Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 9:18 am
Let's try a more apples to apples comparison.

My "power company" is my local village "government" here in the expensive Northeast, right next door to you. And it doesn't get much more expensive than living in NY.

According to my friend the mayor, there are 42 such municipal, or co-op, power companies in NY State. They all have much lower rates than the big power companies. What they don't have is a bunch of middle-man companies each adding to the cost of electricity.

3.5 cents a KWH is all it takes to get our power from the St. Lawrance hydro. Add about 1 to 2 cents to that for a total of 5 to 5+ cents is for being supplemented by gas fired power plants for when the village is over the hydro allotment. A lot of homes here use some form of electric heat. In the coldest month this winter my bill got up to 5.6 cents a KWH.

Maybe you should start looking at all the companies that have their fingers in your power supply ? Or find out how these 42 places in NYS got such cheap power when the big NYS power companies are so expensive ?

Paul
Is it possible that there is much more liability and more regulations regarding the delivery of electricity to populated cities or metro areas? Suburban people seem to have more ability to deal with outages than city folk.

If regulations are the reason then it isn't much different than repaving a highway in the west versus the northeast. One does so with orange cones and no flag people or police cars and others haul in cement barricades.

 
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Post by k-2 » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 10:06 am

ColdHouse wrote:
Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 6:54 am
If they can charge and get paid $100 for something that costs them $0.99 why sell it for $1.50? This is especially true when it comes to monopolies that interact with the government like healthcare, utilities, any and all municipal services, education.....
Competition is the key. Without competition and energy choice in PA i would be paying 15c KWH instead of 9.5c for generation.
That and how many lobbyist you can afford to influence politicians.

 
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Post by c&t coal » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 5:20 pm

I'm not sure what the regulations are in NY for municipals and co-ops, but I do know that here in MA. the big difference is that the municipals pay no property taxes. The bigger investor owned companies like Eversource, Unitil and NG pay a property tax on everything, poles, transformers every foot of wire, meters, transformers etc. It's not a level playing field.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 6:07 pm

c&t coal wrote:
Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 5:20 pm
I'm not sure what the regulations are in NY for municipals and co-ops, but I do know that here in MA. the big difference is that the municipals pay no property taxes. The bigger investor owned companies like Eversource, Unitil and NG pay a property tax on everything, poles, transformers every foot of wire, meters, transformers etc. It's not a level playing field.
The municipals and co-ops don't own those poles, transformers or every foot of wire" to get the power to them, but they pay to use them. My local power has to come hunderds of miles from the St. Lawerance seaway. So, it is a level field in that sense. So why the big difference in rates ? Hint, it has nothing to do with equipment and taxes.

Paul


 
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Post by c&t coal » Tue. Mar. 21, 2023 9:44 pm

So the answer to this quiz is of course MONEY. The investor owned companies need to return on investment, municipals don't.

 
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Post by hank2 » Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 12:03 am

I live fairly close to a University town. For about the last 50 years or more, that borough has a monopoly on electric service for all residents. Their "all in" rate is about 40% higher than the sky high rates of the two local utilities, PPL and Met Ed. Every now and then there's an uprising of the citizens and they dust off the old argument that the borough property taxes are lower than most. Since about 4000-5000 of the students live off campus in town, they feed the till on electric bills. The permanent home and business owners sort of make out on it only if they aren't big electric users.

Many years ago, this borough also monopolized the cable TV service. They tried, but failed legally, to do the same thing with internet ISP. The place is run sort of like a former Warsaw pact country with lots of free or cheap treats for the well to do arts crowd.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 3:19 pm

Double post

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 8:38 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 3:19 pm
Double post
Sometimes the system is slow..people think the post did not post.. So they do it 2x

 
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Post by k-2 » Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 8:58 pm

Since coal follows oil to some extent and also is subject to inflation which doesnt seem to be going away anytime soon i feel coal prices will maintain a % of the recent price increases going forward. Nat gas is cheap but only until the glut is used up. Each oil shock price is higher than the one before it.Iv never seen diesel prices over $6 in my life until this last round. And then you have foreign market demand as well. Im going dual fuel Nat gas and Coal .

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 9:14 pm

k-2 wrote:
Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 8:58 pm
Since coal follows oil to some extent and also is subject to inflation which doesnt seem to be going away anytime soon i feel coal prices will maintain a % of the recent price increases going forward. Nat gas is cheap but only until the glut is used up. Each oil shock price is higher than the one before it.Iv never seen diesel prices over $6 in my life until this last round. And then you have foreign market demand as well. Im going dual fuel Nat gas and Coal .
I think you're definitely in the most economical spot if you can do both. Especially with nat gas bouncing around under $3. I hope coal comes back down sooner than later since that's my cheapest option.

 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Thu. Mar. 23, 2023 2:58 am

waytomany?s wrote:
Wed. Mar. 22, 2023 9:14 pm
I think you're definitely in the most economical spot if you can do both. Especially with nat gas bouncing around under $3. I hope coal comes back down sooner than later since that's my cheapest option.
Coal wont go down for utilities and commercial users in the near term ,some of their contracts are for 2 years out.

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Wed. Aug. 30, 2023 7:06 am

Couldn't help but notice that the Kimmel bags are not very ultraviolet ray friendly. I have some bags that were not covered left in the elements since spring and all the bags are deteriorated and open on the top side. No issues with Santa bags from several years ago.
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