More NJ Coal Fired Power Plants to Close

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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post Thu. Oct. 20, 2016 7:32 pm

Coal power generation in NJ now down to 2%. I've read several articles saying nat gas is cheaper.
Are regulations pushing it our or is it really that nat gas is cheaper? Eggheads say it's a price war and nat gas from shale fracking is winning. I don't know, but I'm wondering if will be long term.
3 Videos: Chavez can shov(el) it . . . & he's @ it full time now!

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lzaharis
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Post Thu. Oct. 20, 2016 8:44 pm

They have the market flooded with too much fracked gas
and oil from North Dakota, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Pennsylvania
and last but not least from Canada

They have been shutting down wells and laying drillers and
laborers off and many of these companies have gone belly
up due to the oversupply of gas and the same companies
buying new drilling equipment and not being able to use it
as the supply of gas has overcome any obstacle to
transporting it locally by setting new gas collecting pipelines
from the gas fields to the other major pipelines.

Some drill operators are making money selling gas and they
are still drilling and capping wells on a bet and hunch/speculating that things
will expand even more so there will be that much more gas entering
the market place using the Chicago Mercantile Exchange in one example.

They will have a problem if a major disaster struck i.e., the New Mad Rid Fault
(yes its actually pronounced that way) breaks and creates as much or more
damage as the last time it let go creating conditions where the Mississippi River
ran backwards for a time and many other things happened like falling brick steeples
and church bells ringing from the P waves created by the earths movement.

If the major pipelines rupture that will create financial shock waves let alone
gas fires in the Midwest and along the East Coast.

:cry:
I am done scaring myself for now.

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wilder11354
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Post Thu. Oct. 20, 2016 9:40 pm

Nat gas is cheap...ffor now. because market is overwhelmed with supply, so they(NG) wiill broker any deal they can to sell. Now, once most machinerys converted to NG... and no option to use another fuel(mechanically in powerplants).. Prices will rise...GAURANTEED! And also will surcharges on electric power.

Electric companies equivalent, To NATURAL(?) Gas...post production costs..(IE transportation..pipe lines, advertising, etc)) gas companies had built...you pay for.

Pacowy
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Post Thu. Oct. 20, 2016 11:08 pm

In the longer term I think many power generators believe that fracking has increased the supply of NG in a way that is largely sustainable, and has lowered expectations of future NG price levels. In areas where delivered coal prices are comparatively high and fracked gas is readily available, NG has taken market share from coal for economic reasons.

No doubt this administration has created a lot of regulatory uncertainty regarding coal that has contributed to some of the coal plant closure/repowering decisions. For the most part though, I think it has been older and less efficient coal plants that have taken the hit, as would be expected from cheaper gas prices even if the regulatory environment had not changed. I think regulatory initiatives like the Clean Power Plan have the potential to materially impact coal plants that are still operating (because they are still economic to dispatch). Those would be the reductions that would be economically harmful and caused by regulation.

Mike

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McGiever
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Post Fri. Oct. 21, 2016 10:00 am

All good comments, but NG doesn't get delivered by truck, rail or river barge.

Pipeline infrastructure has limitations and what happens when the NE temps take a plunge and the NG winter heating loads peak...is there enough capacity so these power plants can continue to run?

The logistics of moving the same equivilant volume of NG in this country to replace tonnage of coal to generate electrity here is mind boggling...and the pipeline infrastructure is scrambling to optimize what already existing.

Think of the MCFM of NG to a single 883 MWatt generator...near here are 3 such units side by side on the same proprty, how big of pipe diameter and at what flow rate will keep them spinning 24/7/365???

Where's our resident mathematician? :)
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johnjoseph
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Post Fri. Oct. 21, 2016 10:12 am

NG is not available in my neck of the woods...nor is bituminous coal...anthracite is my heating source and shipped in from PA...Our electricity here is generated via hydro an wind....we are not connected to the "grid" as the rest of you are...so we are very limited.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." Cool Hand Luke is a 1967 American prison drama film

coalnewbie
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Post Fri. Oct. 21, 2016 11:02 am

anthracite is my heating source and shipped in from PA
Who needs anything else. Gimme a gigantic pile of black rocks and the world can go hang.
Our electricity here is generated via hydro an wind
Do ya want to exchange electric bills. All I need is some Gone With The Wind lamps.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

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wilder11354
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Post Fri. Oct. 21, 2016 7:50 pm

Theres a BIG problem with gas lines for NAt Gas going thru NY state. Problem.... its a pass thru line... no long term revenue for the state, no longer term jobs, compared to the building of them. So... NY is squashing the gains oof the producing states... that allow fracking, NYS bans fracking, so even thought theres NG to be had in NY.. its taboo. So also are the long term jobs, taxable commercial income, and any ancillary down stream windfalls from NG. So thank NY for being the pickle in the real delivry of NG... INCLUDING to NYC. So...... who's wrong the elected... or ,according to George Carlin, THE Dumber asses that keep them in office?

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coalnewbie
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Post Sat. Oct. 22, 2016 8:23 am

There is just about nothing that the stoopid dems in NYS have done that I approve of but putting the breaks on fracking was a good thing for our water aquifers - sorry. Who cares about a few jobs.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

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wilder11354
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Post Sat. Oct. 22, 2016 11:06 am

Fracking in NY has been going on for years...... what, how you say!?! Salt Mining. And yes there are aquafier issues, along with land subsidence.

coalnewbie
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Post Sat. Oct. 22, 2016 12:53 pm

So we learned from salt mining, stop screwing around down there. Now let's shut the salt mines and if we lose a few jobs who cares. Just about all we got is good water and most of the country would change places with us. The whole SW of the country will be bone dry in about 80 years and Florida has BIG problems.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

Sunny Boy
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Post Sun. Oct. 23, 2016 12:11 pm

As of 2016 NY State has only three still working, and one idled, coal-fired plants, out of 8 working as of only 6 years ago.

Thanks to being downwind and down stream of the Great Lakes, combined with the Adirondack mount range, NY state is said to have the highest amount hydro power of any State east of the Mississippi.

All the gas fired plants are down in the NYC Long Island area. With that being the Dem majority part of the State, I'm not sure why our Dem governor caved in to the greenies and stopped and banned all gas drilling, which is in predominantly Repub controlled rural upstate areas in NYS. When they start having brown-outs down state the governor is kinda shooting himself in the political foot if he thinks he's screwing some upstate Repubs out of gas industry jobs and land leases. :D

However, for a long time NY has had many gas pipelines throughout the state and not much complaints. There's a major gas pipeline pumping/cooling station on RT 20 near Carlisle NY for the Tennessee line. Many of those lines lead to Albany area and down state to NYC and Long Island. There's one being built now across the southern tier to feed gas from the fields in Penn State. The only complaints I've heard about it was mentioned in local news about how the line is being built where it is crossing a stream.

Paul
Last edited by Sunny Boy on Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

coalnewbie
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Post Sun. Oct. 23, 2016 5:14 pm

When they start having brown-outs down state
He will blame Bush and all the silly liberals will believe him.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

Sunny Boy
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Post Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 8:57 am

coalnewbie wrote:
When they start having brown-outs down state
He will blame Bush and all the silly liberals will believe him.
He can blame whoever ....... downstate, they still need our upstate-produced electricity, water, gas, and food.

Not to mention, stand at the Tappan Zee bridge toll booths on a Friday and Sunday afternoon and see which way the vast majority of personal car traffic is going. ;)

Paul
So many stoves - so few chimneys. I must be coal-stone crazy.

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JerseyShore
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Post Thu. Dec. 01, 2016 7:52 pm

This will hurt our economy so bad :mad:

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