Likely Delivery Shortage

How many of you have been able to verify that you were shorted on a coal delivery. I had 5 tons of coal delivered the other day. I had the coal delivered on a tarp outside and I carry it into my basement in buckets. As I took the buckets down I kept track of the number of buckets. I used 4.5 gallon drywall mud buckets. I weighed several different buckets full of coal and the most I could get into a bucket was 35 lbs, some of the buckets were as light a 33lbs. I ended up with 271 buckets of coal. Even using the highest weight I only get 9485 lbs. Has this happened to any of you and were you able to get a resolution. I would also like to know if there is anyway possible this could have happened without the seller knowingly shorting me. I contacted the seller and I am waiting to hear back from someone with the authority to handle the problem.

I should also mention, the buckets were weighed on a known accurate shipping scale and I compensated for the weight of the buckets.

What does the weight slip say? It should list the Gross, Tare and Net weight of the load delivered and have the weigh-masters signature and stamp. It wasn't exactly 10,000 pounds, was it?

-Don

As Don Mentioned it may not have been exactly 10K
pounds due to any residual coal dust packed in the
corners of the high lift dump box. another issue is
coal fines dust flying off the load if the load was
not tarped after loading from the mine or coal yard.

Every bump, turn heavy breaking moves the loads
and exposes more area to the winds that the coal
truck encounters and the simple act of the coal
truck driving down the road allows the air surrounding
the dump box to enter the dump box and act as a
vacuum simply because the surrounding air is
encountering the coal load and any exposed parts of the
dump box which force the creating of a venturi in miniature
to suck out any dust that has been exposed by the simple movement
of the coal truck at highway speeds.

The amount of coal dust being sucked off the unit trains coming out of
the State of Wyoming in the Powder River Basin as well as the coal being
hauled out of the Eastern Bituminous coal mines has created a huge issue
with the coal dust coming off the hopper cars as it gets into everything and
it also ruins the rail ballast stones ability to drain water and absorb the loads
of the various unit trains that use the lines to haul freight.

I did not mean to make this as long as it was (insert snore here) but there is
a science that goes along with it.

If the driver did not clean his dump body on a regular basis the buildup in the
corners or around the dump gates would affect the Gross, Tare and Net weights
every time by reducing the amount of coal carried to the customer from the
mine or coal yard and if the load did not get tarped like it is supposed to it also
affects the weight due to the dust being sucked off the top of the load until the larger
coal pieces were exposed to the wind and every time the load shifted more dust
would be sucked off the load. Its a circular firing squad so to speak without firearms
and the customer loses in the end.

lzaharis wrote:As Don Mentioned it may not have been exactly 10K
pounds due to any residual coal dust packed in the
corners of the high lift dump box. another issue is
coal fines dust flying off the load if the load was
not tarped after loading from the mine or coal yard.

Every bump, turn heavy breaking moves the loads
and exposes more area to the winds that the coal
truck encounters and the simple act of the coal
truck driving down the road allows the air surrounding
the dump box to enter the dump box and act as a
vacuum simply because the surrounding air is
encountering the coal load and any exposed parts of the
dump box which force the creating of a venturi in miniature
to suck out any dust that has been exposed by the simple movement
of the coal truck at highway speeds.

The amount of coal dust being sucked off the unit trains coming out of
the State of Wyoming in the Powder River Basin as well as the coal being
hauled out of the Eastern Bituminous coal mines has created a huge issue
with the coal dust coming off the hopper cars as it gets into everything and
it also ruins the rail ballast stones ability to drain water and absorb the loads
of the various unit trains that use the lines to haul freight.

I did not mean to make this as long as it was (insert snore here) but there is
a science that goes along with it.

If the driver did not clean his dump body on a regular basis the buildup in the
corners or around the dump gates would affect the Gross, Tare and Net weights
every time by reducing the amount of coal carried to the customer from the
mine or coal yard and if the load did not get tarped like it is supposed to it also
affects the weight due to the dust being sucked off the top of the load until the larger
coal pieces were exposed to the wind and every time the load shifted more dust
would be sucked off the load. Its a circular firing squad so to speak without firearms
and the customer loses in the end.

LEON!!!!!!
Do you really think that the guy lost 500 lbs of coal out the back of his truck on a ten mile trip?

Your short is roughly 15 buckets. Any possibility of a bucket count error? Was there any fines left on the tarp that would account for some of the weight?

What might have happened is that your delivery guy didn't fully drain the the coal after picking it up at a breaker. He weighed it wet. it could account for a lot of that weight.

ALSO, I think your bucket weight is light a couple pounds considering a 5 gallon bucket is 40 - 41 pounds. If you were off by 2 pounds per bucket for 271 buckets, that would be the WHOLE missing coal weight.

271 × 37 pounds is 10,027
271 x 36 pounds is 9756

Too much room for error with your measuring system. You could only get an accurate weight by measuring every bucket individually. Every bucket would weigh a little different depending on size of the coal consistency ect. When the coal is delivered, as it's being poured, bigger coal tends to run to the outside of the pile while the smaller pieces will stay in the center. If you used the weight of the bigger coal for a "bench weight" it will be lighter than a bucket full of smaller coal.

Wow, this guy is a tough customer.

Well there's no way 500 to 800 pounds blew out of the truck, I was very careful in counting and keep in mind these buckets were not 5 gallon buckets they were 4.5 gallons buckets, they're a little shorter. By the way, 35 is the best case scenario many of the buckets I weighted had 33 to 34 lbs in them. Frankly I wish I could attribute this to me making a mistake so I don't have to feel ripped off, but there's just no way the load wasn't short. I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller.

Okay, let's look at it this way. 4.5 gallons is 90% of 5 gallons. A 5 gallon bucket gets 41 pounds of nut size anthracite possibly 42 pounds depending on density. 90% of 41 pounds is 36.9 pounds. You should be getting ~37 pounds in your 4.5 gallon bucket. I think your scale is off or the empty bucket weight is wrong.

Interestingly enough, 36.9 x 271 buckets is 9999.9 pounds.

Hey man, I'm just here to help.

Lightning wrote:Okay, let's look at it this way. 4.5 gallons is 90% of 5 gallons. A 5 gallon bucket gets 41 pounds of nut size anthracite possibly 42 pounds depending on density. 90% of 41 pounds is 36.9 pounds. You should be getting ~37 pounds in your 4.5 gallon bucket. I think your scale is off or the empty bucket weight is wrong.

Interestingly enough, 36.9 x 271 buckets is 9999.9 pounds.

Hey man, I'm just here to help.

I weighed these buckets on a known accurate scale. I ship up to 100 packages a week, many get weighed on my scale and then on fedex's scales and they agree. Never had any problems when I picked up the coal myself. I tried filling a bucket heaping full and shaking down and couldn't even get to 36 lbs. The coal that I'm buying is less dense than some other vendors, I compared it to reading coal and it was nearly two pounds lighter for the same volume.

StokerDon wrote:What does the weight slip say? It should list the Gross, Tare and Net weight of the load delivered and have the weigh-masters signature and stamp. It wasn't exactly 10,000 pounds, was it?

-Don

It was exactly 10000 pounds
27400 gross
17400 tare
10000 net

Lightning wrote:Okay, let's look at it this way. 4.5 gallons is 90% of 5 gallons. A 5 gallon bucket gets 41 pounds of nut size anthracite possibly 42 pounds depending on density. 90% of 41 pounds is 36.9 pounds. You should be getting ~37 pounds in your 4.5 gallon bucket. I think your scale is off or the empty bucket weight is wrong.

Interestingly enough, 36.9 x 271 buckets is 9999.9 pounds.

Hey man, I'm just here to help.

Also the empty buckets were 2lbs. I'm sure you'll agree that is the correct weight.

Yeah, I agree but it just seems your full coal bucket is lite to me. Have you always used this delivery guy?