Getting Into the Coal Business

Rob R. wrote:The $50 margin was only an estimate for coal in my area...which is Northern NY. Do not base your calculations on that, it might not be applicable for your area.

Thanks.. Yes I figured 50.00 a ton profit was a estimate and that's fine it's only a number . My point here is no matter what the current competitors profit in your area would be I could make more of a profit and sell cheaper just have to move more volume ... Like I stated before if retailors in your area are getting the coal using same principle Broker/ salseman. Pay for delivery .. Then I will make more profit then them and sell cheaper..

If you can get it here cheaper than I can, I will just buy from you.

Rob R. wrote:If you can get it here cheaper than I can, I will just buy from you.

Ok just a example here .. I assume u are I. Chazy Ny correct?? That is 100 miles from where I sit.. So tell me a few things and I will tell u if I can beat your current price per ton ..

1: city and state
2: What size coal bagged or loose
3 : what you currently pay for coal per ton
4: how you get it.. Local or do you travel a distance for it? If so include fuel in your total cost of coal and some people add time and wear and tear on vehicle .. So do if u like
5: do you have it delivered to your home

Just a experiment here people I'm going to see if I could sell you Quality Anthracite coal at a better price per ton than you are currently paying from my Depot ... I need to know a few things first.. Everyone feel free to participate but must include all info needed..

1: City and state
2: what size coal and bagged or loose
3: What you are currently paying per ton and if u drive a distance to get it include fuel to cost.. Some people value time also so include if u like ..
4: delivered or pick up..

Where are you located? I see you didn't fill out your profile.

Getting Into the Coal Business
Rob did it for $236/ton bagged...
Delivered...

Chazy, NY. Bagged rice, 50 lb bags, 2500 lb pallets. $236 per ton for 22.5 tons delivered to the back yard. Coal is from Stockton, nice product.

Rob R. wrote:Chazy, NY. Bagged rice, 50 lb bags, 2500 lb pallets. $236 per ton for 22.5 tons delivered to the back yard. Coal is from Stockton, nice product.

Not bad ... 225.00 per ton same set up at 22.5 ton saved u 11.00 a ton at current price if I sold it to you today.. You unload it..

Breakerboy wrote:

Rob R. wrote:Chazy, NY. Bagged rice, 50 lb bags, 2500 lb pallets. $236 per ton for 22.5 tons delivered to the back yard. Coal is from Stockton, nice product.

Not bad ... 225.00 per ton same set up at 22.5 ton saved u 11.00 a ton at current price if I sold it to you today.. You unload it..

That's if I was set up today so at my current pricing .. So this is hypothetical obviously but I figured as real world as possible...

When I say hypothetical I mean I found my best price here from a breaker if I bought 22.5 ton bagged .. I saved u 11.00 a ton and I still made a profit not what I would like to see but the price you paid is not normal and it won't be there next time u call put money on that .. So yeah good that u got 22.5 ton that should last u 2 years minimal and won't have to sell to you at that low of price.. Lol. Thanks

Here's my info in case you'd be interested in heading south.

1: City and state........North East, MD
2: what size coal and bagged or loose..............Rice, Loose
3: What you are currently paying per ton and if u drive a distance to get it include fuel to cost.. Some people value time also so include if u like .. $200 / ton driving 30 miles each way picking up a ton at a time, so add $20 in fuel per ton.
4: delivered or pick up. Prefer to have 10 ton delivered

titleist1 wrote:Here's my info in case you'd be interested in heading south.

1: City and state........North East, MD
2: what size coal and bagged or loose..............Rice, Loose
3: What you are currently paying per ton and if u drive a distance to get it include fuel to cost.. Some people value time also so include if u like .. $200 / ton driving 30 miles each way picking up a ton at a time, so add $20 in fuel per ton.
4: delivered or pick up. Prefer to have 10 ton delivered

MD great state good hunting... Anyways so you pay about 220 per ton after fuel and do you make 10 trips to get your 10ton ?? Do I have this correct?? Ok yeah I see that .. Sorry ok .. So you would pay 2,200.00 currently. I sell it to u for 2,080.00 delivered at my current price once again hypothetical at this point some would say B.S but that's where I would be approx to get better idea need a city or town in MD to check mileage to be exact ..

Just a few questions to ask. What is the cost/Ton on a 30 ton load from the breaker? What is the trucking cost? What is a monthly rental for a skid steer? Could you sell by the cubic yard?, that is the work around to a certified scale. Is there a public scale available? How much could you sell? And this was the hardest question for me to answer, how will you keep the coal from disappearing at 2 AM? And this is what stopped be cold, the Bureau of Mines regulate coal sales in my state and the EPA requires that there is NO run off, or dust.

Basically those are your hard costs, add to that any cost for that 1/2 acre, insurance, and a building (even a shed costs money), a truck, and fuel, and you can calculate your cost/ton. Oh, and nobody wants coal when it's warm, and everybody wants coal when it is not.

When I did all that I found that could work for nothing for four months out of the year, then go on vacation. Everyone I talked to wanted me to do it, but nobody wanted to take 4-5 Ton loads. Every one who would there was always the problem of getting in to unload without damaging a lawn or driveway.

1: City and state - Strasburg,OH
2: what size coal and bagged or loose - Pea, either
3: What you are currently paying per ton - $95/Ton for Bit, $235/Ton for anthracite. Both are P/U (two different sites) Fuel is under two gallons, add $7/Ton
4: delivered or pick up.. Both are PU, I can get the anthracite delivered for $1.50/Mi, roughly $30. The Bit I have to go get.

HardWood1789 wrote:Just a few questions to ask. What is the cost/Ton on a 30 ton load from the breaker? What is the trucking cost? What is a monthly rental for a skid steer? Could you sell by the cubic yard?, that is the work around to a certified scale. Is there a public scale available? How much could you sell? And this was the hardest question for me to answer, how will you keep the coal from disappearing at 2 AM? And this is what stopped be cold, the Bureau of Mines regulate coal sales in my state and the EPA requires that there is NO run off, or dust.

Basically those are your hard costs, add to that any cost for that 1/2 acre, insurance, and a building (even a shed costs money), a truck, and fuel, and you can calculate your cost/ton. Oh, and nobody wants coal when it's warm, and everybody wants coal when it is not.

When I did all that I found that could work for nothing for four months out of the year, then go on vacation. Everyone I talked to wanted me to do it, but nobody wanted to take 4-5 Ton loads. Every one who would there was always the problem of getting in to unload without damaging a lawn or driveway.

1: City and state - Strasburg,OH
2: what size coal and bagged or loose - Pea, either
3: What you are currently paying per ton - $95/Ton for Bit, $235/Ton for anthracite. Both are P/U (two different sites) Fuel is under two gallons, add $7/Ton
4: delivered or pick up.. Both are PU, I can get the anthracite delivered for $1.50/Mi, roughly $30. The Bit I have to go get.

HardWood1789 wrote:Just a few questions to ask. What is the cost/Ton on a 30 ton load from the breaker? What is the trucking cost? What is a monthly rental for a skid steer? Could you sell by the cubic yard?, that is the work around to a certified scale. Is there a public scale available? How much could you sell? And this was the hardest question for me to answer, how will you keep the coal from disappearing at 2 AM? And this is what stopped be cold, the Bureau of Mines regulate coal sales in my state and the EPA requires that there is NO run off, or dust.

Basically those are your hard costs, add to that any cost for that 1/2 acre, insurance, and a building (even a shed costs money), a truck, and fuel, and you can calculate your cost/ton. Oh, and nobody wants coal when it's warm, and everybody wants coal when it is not.

When I did all that I found that could work for nothing for four months out of the year, then go on vacation. Everyone I talked to wanted me to do it, but nobody wanted to take 4-5 Ton loads. Every one who would there was always the problem of getting in to unload without damaging a lawn or driveway.

1: City and state - Strasburg,OH
2: what size coal and bagged or loose - Pea, either
3: What you are currently paying per ton - $95/Ton for Bit, $235/Ton for anthracite. Both are P/U (two different sites) Fuel is under two gallons, add $7/Ton
4: delivered or pick up.. Both are PU, I can get the anthracite delivered for $1.50/Mi, roughly $30. The Bit I have to go get.

Ok well lots of questions there that I have previously answered in prior posts or other members have brought up theese hurdles I may encounter..First each and every state has set regulations on how and how not to handle coal some states I won't bother setting up shop in the way I intially intend but there are other ways of still moving my product in them states if it would not be profitable for me and end user .. I simply stay away from said States...I have been tossing this idea around for 3 years and I am confident in a few states such as Ny Nj Md and western Pa .. Now bagged coal may be my only option in some cases loose coal is my issue... They way I want to store it in bulk 400 ton at said location .. For example I have a meeting set up with a man on Friday in up state Ny that owns a rather large pole building that he previously sold Christmas trees out of leading up to Christmas .. He is retiring but wants to lease building out rather cheap it's zoned comercial and next to his home.. he is well established and moved approx 400 to 500 trees a year I know this because I know the man that sold and delivered his trees for 25 years ... Speaking to him he said wood burning was a common heating practice in his area for years so he would sell wood during season but his costumer base dropped due to people converting to coal .. I asked why not make the transition yourself sell coal now.. His response was at 81 years old it's no longer a hobby it's a job and don't want to do it any longer... Now bagged coal won't be a issue to sell out of there but bulk may be.. I'm purchasing a large digital warehouse scale that weighs in 1 pound incraments up to 10,000 pounds will that be up to par for weights and measures ??? I don't know but I plan on looking into it before I purchase.. I am a welder fabricator buy trade and My buddy came up with a big free standing funnel to fill bags might not be fastest way in the world but it works ok we filled hopper with 2 ton of rice and bagged it in a tad over 1 hr for his personal use... Delivery from my location to home may not work all the time but at times it will work at others .. Basically what I have is a location where one can pick up there own quality anthracite all sizes bagged or loose without paying to have it tractor trailored in or make the long trip with a truck to get here from my back yard which none is betterThis is just ideas that I have will I be able to comply with all regulations ?? I don't know at this point yet but I'm going to give it a shot... Like I mentioned earlier 1 location at a time if I do well and get past the learning curve I expand if I don't succeed close up shop.. Plain and simple so my first location is critical I have to choose location and state wisely.. Yes up front cost is high.. I don't plan on paying off all equipment cost in first year.... No business is debt free in first year but if I can pay my bills and turn a profit that's progress and future does look bright ... Hopefully I answered some of your questions and I appreciate your concern I mean that sincerely.. Give me a bit and I will hypothetically give u a estimate.. Rem people I in no way shape or form am guarantee you a price I'm not set up yet so basically a idea at today if I was set up its as real world as possible at my current rates ..

Hardwood 1789 .. No one in your area sells bagged anthracite from say Blasjack , Kimmels , Reading anthracite ?? Like no hardware stores , stove shops ??? Loose coal stored and sold by the ton has to be by ton not cubic yard because it's a solid fuel.. If your state has it regulated like you say I may stay out that market with loose but I can't see by the bag being a issue.. That would be a monopoly and delivery trucks from out of state would be fined for selling out of state product .. Tough state my brother lives in Ohio Dayton area I would have to look into that..

If u look back at my original post I stated selling coal from my said location Aug thru April .. And many people have coal boilers that use coal year round not as much but do need coal for hot water..

I guess if I set up shop in Ohio and loose coal would be a hassle for me with said regulations and I couldn't turn a profit .. Then I would resort to selling my bagged product from my location available for pick up or delivery from there if of course I could make profit from that...

Btw: Just example .. I live in coal region a breaker located within a few miles in almost every direction .. Bagged coal from local breakers sold everywhere around here gas stations produce stands hardware stores average cost is 8.00 a 50 pound bag .. I see people buying all the time local people by bag or skid... I don't understand this convenient ?? Can't afford a lot at one time ??? No truck to get it ??? But they buy it for what ever reason.. The breakers figured this out that's why they sell it that way local and out of state.. The Breaker is not making all the profit from that bag of coal that the store is selling at 8.00 a bag .. That coal was marked up at least 2 times before store got it .. I want to make all profit myself after I leave breaker .. Profit mark up is as follows .. Breaker, Broker/salesman , Transportation, business.. Other than the breaker I will make rest of mark up by handling the rest..

With no pre order of coal I can go to a breaker tomorrow and buy 1 ton of bagged rice palletized for 205.00 ... I can drive that ton to Ny 90 miles away and sell it for 275.00 because I checked average price in that area from my couch it's 290.00 to 300.00now not much profit 70.00 may even break even but I paid a premium for that ton .. If I pre order 400 ton and get a discount per ton and delivered that 400 ton to my location and sold it all from there at 275.00 a ton I'm making money