Getting Into the Coal Business

You can get bagged for $170-180 ton for a TT load...
Add shipping...
TT with a stinger/hopper eliminate 2 pallets...
You driving semi will not be doing some residential drops...
small roads weight limits...
So here in the NE TT load is $220 ish for bulk $230 ish for bagged...
Retails $280 bulk $300 bagged...
So if you sold bagged off the side of the truck, no stinger, ran overloaded, owned your own truck and took only cash...
You would clear $3380 before fuel, time and mileage...
Round trip $700 for fuel...
Round trip $400 depreciation/mileage on truck...
$2180 net profit...
Do it twice a week in the dead of winter...
Don't get caught with a 26 ton load...
You could make $50K a year...
This is KISS...
Take the summer off...
Or work and make more than 50K...

Richard S. wrote:

Breakerboy wrote: 90.00 per ton profit X 400 ton = 36,000.00

Have you ever run a business before? Last time I bought a plate it $600 for the high lift I posted previously, thousands in insurance... know what a front tire cost? 18 quart oil change? It would be a lot less now but I was spending $50 a month on phone bills.

I have been self employed for the last 10 years .. Started in flooring /General contractin.. No experience in coal other than growing up playing in it ..Look I know there are expenses and risk but honestly tell me name a business where there is none of that ... That's the business I want to be in...
yeah things are not cheap.. Thanks for info

CapeCoaler wrote:You can get bagged for $170-180 ton for a TT load...
Add shipping...
TT with a stinger/hopper eliminate 2 pallets...
You driving semi will not be doing some residential drops...
small roads weight limits...
So here in the NE TT load is $220 ish for bulk $230 ish for bagged...
Retails $280 bulk $300 bagged...
So if you sold bagged off the side of the truck, no stinger, ran overloaded, owned your own truck and took only cash...
You would clear $3380 before fuel, time and mileage...
Round trip $700 for fuel...
Round trip $400 depreciation/mileage on truck...
$2180 net profit...
Do it twice a week in the dead of winter...
Don't get caught with a 26 ton load...
You could make $50K a year...
This is KISS...
Take the summer off...
Or work and make more than 50K...

Nice... That was a awesome post .. Like how everything broken down ... Thank you

Richard S. wrote:

Breakerboy wrote: I use a dump with a shoot or auger it wouldn't suit everyone but I try my best ... Yeah they are expensive..

Again the dump is only good for windows that are ground level that you can back up to. That's a very small percentage of customers you are going to have. You have boxes outside, you have windows under decks, you have access holes under porches where the porch lifts up, you have obstacles that don't allow the truck to get near the house... even with a lift some places can be a PITA. I had one house where the porch was about 2 feet off the ground, about a 6 foot shot under the porch into a terra cotta pipe.

Assuming an ideal bin with a high lift you can fill a bin to the rafters and never touch a shovel if you know what you are doing. If you have a hole 6 feet off the ground and you're taking 7 ton you will be in and out of there in about 15 minutes. You'll be there for 2 or 3 hours shoveling your brains out with the dump.

As far as an auger or conveyor goes the auger is going to grind up a lot of coal. A lot of setup time. You also have a piece of equipment to maintain and likely to break. My Grandfather and Uncle used to have conveyors but only for some houses in Plymouth that were impossible to deliver to with a high lift. They didn't use them daily.

You made a lot of good points there .. And yeah delivery would not be my strongest point at first.. I'm sure u saw all kinds of crazy set ups .. Thanks

Sounds bout right at 50.00 a ton retail .. But now what that retailer missed out on was 3 more profits made before his .. Breaker , Broker , shipping.. I want it all so now my profit is 90 to 100.00 because I handle all .. Make sense??

I understand what you want to do, I just don't understand how you will do it. Unless you are going to buy your own breaker, you are stuck paying market price for the coal. Go ahead and call a few breakers and tell them you are starting a coal yard and would like to know what their pricing schedule is by volume. If you want to get a discount like the brokers do, you will have to prebuy a lot of coal very early in the season. As for the shipping, long-haul trucks run all the time to make a profit...what will you do to keep the truck busy the rest of the time? I know a coal dealer that has a nice tandem axle dump truck with a coal door on the back...he only went to get coal in PA once, after that he had it delivered by the TT load due to cost.

Rob R. wrote:

Sounds bout right at 50.00 a ton retail .. But now what that retailer missed out on was 3 more profits made before his .. Breaker , Broker , shipping.. I want it all so now my profit is 90 to 100.00 because I handle all .. Make sense??

I understand what you want to do, I just don't understand how you will do it. Unless you are going to buy your own breaker, you are stuck paying market price for the coal. Go ahead and call a few breakers and tell them you are starting a coal yard and would like to know what their pricing schedule is by volume. If you want to get a discount like the brokers do, you will have to prebuy a lot of coal very early in the season. As for the shipping, long-haul trucks run all the time to make a profit...what will you do to keep the truck busy the rest of the time? I know a coal dealer that has a nice tandem axle dump truck with a coal door on the back...he only went to get coal in PA once, after that he had it delivered by the TT load due to cost.

To put things In a better perspective ... Your friends truck did not suit his need for some reason The investment in a truck like that maybe he could not carry enough will not benefit him... But a large truck would benefit me for what I want to do say carry 12 ton 14 ton coal at a time have a drop point dump it go back for another 12 dump it so on so forth till I got my fill... Obviously start up I will not get brokers rates but I will get a slight discount for one location because I will try and sell 800 to 1200 ton my first year.. I believe u said retailers profit 50.00 a ton .. I said the retailor lost profit that I would not because they may have bought from a broker / sales manmaybe not maybe direct from breaker.. But if said retailor used a broker or even a sales man he lost a few dollars from that .. Second: retailor payed for delivery lost profit there .. End result said retailor makes 50.00 a ton profit.. He can raise his profit by price adjust but has to stay competitive or won't move product.. I won't use a broker I buy direct from breaker will I get a huge discount for pre paying for 1200 ton probably not but won't be 170.00 it be cheaper how much I don't know.. Secondly : I won't pay for transportation / delivery to my drop location I will do it so I save there when u pay for it to be delivered u are not only paying for fuel used u are paying the drivers wages... So let's just say me and retailor buy same coal same place same I could still sell cheaper than retailor and make same profit 50.00 overall all a ton at end of day because he payed to have it delivered I didn't I payed myself ... Broke down : I made 35.00 from coal a ton and 15.00 from delivery end result is still 50.00 profit I think I worded that correctly it's late .. I wouldn't drive my V8 gas hog truck that cost me a extra 20.00 bucks to get a ton of coal at breaker if I could fit same ton in wind powered a wheel barrow that cost me nothing got that I kept 20.00 in my pocket ...I cut out all middle men I make all the profit and still beat his price .. Let's just say if average price a ton bagged rice coal is dunno 250.00 in your area your retailor can only charge 250.00 to be competitive cost him 200.00 for that ton after everyone took there cut .. I can charge say 225.00 and still make 50.00 because I really only have 175.00 invested in same ton . I move more volume than him make more 50.00 bills or sell same price and make 75.00 profit hope to move as much volume as him and profit more..Would you buy from me or him if we were only a few miles apart??? same exact product now your father and fathers father and u have been burning it for decades.. I think I got it correctly there or in both examples like I said I'm tired... Thanks for the questions !!! I hope they keep on because I'm scouting out my first location in spring thinking heading north Ny first let me know what u guys think... I promise the best product and service your money can buy .. I've been told these Irish eyes can't lie...

The $50 margin was only an estimate for coal in my area...which is Northern NY. Do not base your calculations on that, it might not be applicable for your area.

As I said before...
The only way to make this work...
Is to break so many laws it is not funny...
You are failing to account for a few things in your senario...
These fees will soon eat up your "extra profit"...
You would need to be a Gypsy...
Selling off the back of the semi...
Parked on someones lot or road paying no rent...
Posting on social media that 'gypsy coal breaker boy was in town come and get it at the corner of Main and Maple'...
Runnin' 3 tons over legal load to make the extra $420...
Making it a cash only affair to avoid credit card fees, bounced checks and "DaMan"...
Avoiding all State and Local fees,permits and the like...
Owning a well maintained Semi outright...
Tossing 1300 40# bags by hand off the back of that semi...
Having customers that will show up every time you arrive to clear your 26 ton load twice a week in only 8 hours...
Sometimes the real world gets in the way of a business plan...
Not tryin' to bust balls here...
Just sayin' it needs a bit more real world...

what it needs is a whole lot less governmental assistance

CapeCoaler wrote: Making it a cash only affair to avoid credit card fees, bounced checks and "DaMan"...

I never took credit cards, looked into it and as soon as I found out they charged me a fee I scrapped that idea. I rarely had bounced checks, matter of fact I don't recall a bad check that wasn't made right almost immediately. I think most of them were honest accidents. As far as the credit went that was something I usually only offered to established customers and I only had a few customers skate on that. Due to the demographics of the people that burn coal very few people try and rip you off. You have to consider that most of the people that burn coal are solid middle class.

You can not fill your drop yard cheaper running a 12 ton dump back & forth yourself rather than paying an existing rig & driver to do the job 24 tons per load. By utilizing the trucks running back & forth on the road anyway,you can be calling customers,setting up delivery times ,etc. The cost per mile difference between your 12 ton capacity single purpose truck & the existing fleet of trucks hauling products & hauling your coal as either a back haul for them to get to their "home"load or enable them to get paid to get to where the product is that they will haul to their home base,that expense difference is sooo little . You will not make a profit stocking a drop yard with your own 12 ton dump,it will not happen,just think about the waiting periods lost every time you go for another 12 ton load , & you expect to get how much done in one day ??? Buy a high lift truck & a good trailer ,either a flat bed that you could haul bagged coal to drop off at bag coal customer & drop off the bulk loose coal at another customer,or a dump trailer to be utilized for bagged or loose coal.With your own delivery truck,xxx tons of prepaid coal at your disposal ,you would have less $$ investment & less $$ risk & could actually get a good amount of deliveries done instead of wasting your time stocking a drop yard,spending the money for property & misc.,spending for scale & misc. ,loader & misc., Do you have a CDL ? are you aware of the extensive paper work associated with running a bigger truck? fuel taxes to be filed in each state you will run in ? depending on the size truck you run,a log book could be required ,ever do one of those ? log book will control how many hours you can work.You cannot become "THE" coal man your first yr ,try being a good,dependable,honest coal delivery service first,do that for a few yrs ,growing some each yr ,try some different small scale ideas as time goes by.Remember , you have to crawl b4 you can walk is actually very true .Listen to what Richard has been telling you,he has been there & done that,at least the delivery part. While its true that experience is the best teacher ,some times our life experiences should lead us to listen to those who have experienced,so we don't have to do the painful curve of learning the same thing that they learned & have tried to warn us about .

Yes Credit Card fees will eat up 3%...
When I said cash only...
I was laying out the Gypsy business plan...
Semi loads of bagged Santa Coal to the North East...
Minimal extra expense and loss...

Thank you guys for every suggestion.. I see a lot of good points here and I can debate all day, but there is a lot of miss understanding about what my idea is about ..

1: I don't plan on stock piling a few hundred ton of coal in a said place, then only hoping someone will call me to have it home delivered to them.. The location I rent lease or buy will sell bagged and loose coal for pick up by customer.. May or may not have a delivery dump truck with shoot on site if customer needs it... ( my set up will be similar to a place that sells mulch or stone )

2: How I will stock my location with coal??? My dump will carry 12 ton and I will use that method to deliver and stock my coal from breaker to my location .. I plan on keeping 400 ton on site at all times..
My (first )location is not going to be California ... But it may be Ny or Nj maybe Md poss other part of Pa so the dump will be feasible to use for me .. For now!

*** BTW. I personally know coal delivery guys from my area 20. Min from me that will deliver 4 ton of coal to parts of Ny Nj and Pa to your home .. For a reasonable fee that is and they have been doing it for years ... It's obvious they are making money or they would not do it... Reason they can make money is simple fact.. Where I live we can buy coal cheaper than you ( sorry but it's true ) if you live in an any of theese parts..

I don't want to Hijack another thread on this site .. Dont know if I can or should copy and paste but there is a guy named (Butchie) the coal guy search it.. He is from Tamaqua 15 min from me he will deliver to most theese parts directly to your home.. He has no semi not even a tri axl just a small dump and will deliver u a few tons... This man has a good reputation he has lots of customers in and out of state and has been doing it for years... He is making money!! Good for him just my point here he can make a profit because he lives in my area once again ( we buy cheaper) we can sell cheaper than u can buy in your area .. That's why there is a profit

Breakerboy wrote:I don't want to Hijack another thread on this site .. Dont know if I can or should copy and paste but there is a guy named (Butchie) the coal guy search it.. He is from Tamaqua 15 min from me he will deliver to most theese parts directly to your home.. He has no semi not even a tri axl just a small dump and will deliver u a few tons... This man has a good reputation he has lots of customers in and out of state and has been doing it for years... He is making money!! Good for him just my point here he can make a profit because he lives in my area once again ( we buy cheaper) we can sell cheaper than u can buy in your area .. That's why there is a profit

To Butchie if u read this I am in no way trying to take away from your business .. Nor am I trash talking you I only intended to use as example ...

To Mods .. If this is not allowed I apologize in advance I mean no disrespect fell free to remove I'm not sure of rules..

Once again. Guys and gals keep the comments and suggestions rolling I'm all ears and take no offense this is a great site and I promote it to everyone interested in burning the old fuel lots of knowledge here I learned a ton .. Haha (a ton )