Coal Truck CDL, and Wholesale Coal Cost Question.

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ntp71
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 10:14 am

Hello,

I have been looking into buying a coal delivery truck to start a small business. There are not alot of these trucks around it seems and some are either CDL (over 26,000lbs) or non CDL. It's hard to find a non CDL truck, and I really don't have time to go to school for a CDL license.

So, my first question is, What type of CDL license do you need for driving a truck that is over 26,000lbs? I guess my question would be, is there a specific endoresement, or is there a basic CDL? I am looking to get a study guide and plan on taking the test, however I have ZERO experience in the world of truck driving so pardon me for my ignorance on the subject.

Ok, my second question. A ton of coal delivered is around $205 in my area. If I go to the breaker and load up my pickup I could get it for $170. Is the breaker price the same price a delivery business would pay, or is there a further discount for volume? Maybe I should have asked when I was at the breaker, however you guys on here seem to know alot about this stuff.

Thanks

Neal

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Dennis
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:08 am

If your wanting to go into a coal delivery business,you should talk to the mayor Richard,since he and his family was in the business.He had 2 high lift trucks for sale also,not sure if he has them still.As for a non-CDL truck(under 26,000 lbs) your only wasting time and fuel as the payload will not be enough, as in you can only carry a few tons and make more trips.
To obtain a Pa.CDL linense,you will need a class B,and any truck over 26,000 lbs. should have air brakes,witch you will need a air brake endorsement for that,along with a medical card. Go to a Pa. liense office or a notary or tag service and they will have a commerical drivers manual with all the required info for obtaining the CDL license.The general knowledge test is 100 questions and the air brake endorsement is 30 questions,and are simple common sense answers.After the test,you will be issued a learners permit,and only a properly endorsed CDL liense holder must drive along with you. I think after 6 weeks you a eligable for a test at the Pa. motor vehicle dept,witch will be a walk around pre-test,then a obsticle course of parking and backing into a space,then you will be able to take the on road test with the Pa.DOT officer.And don't get upset when you fail the test,everyone does I think it's part of the process :mad: Good luck with the new business

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Wiz
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:09 am

Over 26, 000 > 10, 000 is class A. What is needed for class B. General knowledge, air brakes.. class A is trailer, general knowledge, air brakes. Driving test is the same. Need to also get dot physical, drug test.
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Keepaeyeonit
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:11 am

Neal,You need a class B if over 26,000#( straight truck )or a class A if pulling a trailer,and a air brake endorsement if equipped with air brakes,I owned trucks from 1999 to 2004 and I can tell you first hand if you think your going to a killing in the trucking business (to be all legal) you better do research on the compliance factors(maybe PA is better then OH)because I know they have changed since I sold all my stuff,I'm not trying to rain on your parade but there's a lot of hidden costs and BS with the DOT in trucking and if you start crossing state lines the BS gets a lot worse or keep it under 26,000#.Take care Keepaeyeonit :)
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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:45 am

ntp71 wrote: Ok, my second question. A ton of coal delivered is around $205 in my area. If I go to the breaker and load up my pickup I could get it for $170. Is the breaker price the same price a delivery business would pay, or is there a further discount for volume? Maybe I should have asked when I was at the breaker, however you guys on here seem to know alot about this stuff.
The price might be lower but not by much, you might be able to get a better deal. That's a case by case basis and largely going to depend on the volume. Coming in once a week isn't going to put you in the volume dealer category.

If you're interested I have two high lifts for sale, the larger one is 7 ton lift and just about road ready. You're not going to find a lift like this anywhere in this condition unless it's new, check out the last picture. I'll even throw in some lessons. ;)
The second one is 5 ton lift and needs a lot of work on the lift and the truck if you wanted that too but it will go on a non CDL truck. I got a lot of chutes too. Send me PM.
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:58 am

Best advice if you want to get a CDL is to go to one of the driving schools. They will set you up with everything you need, including a truck that is garenteed to pass the pre-trip inspection. You are much more likely to pass on the first try, and will learn more that way than self study. Yes is costs some up front money and time, but how much is your time worth taking the tests mutiple times.
You might even be able to find insurance discounts from taking the class.

If you want to drive a vehicle over 26,000lbs, just get your class A CDL. It will cover you for most anything in your future.

The bigger the truck, the bigger the profits, and also the bigger the maintenance/license/insurance expenses.

I'd say pick the size truck that best suits your client base. Are they buying a couple tons at a time or 10? Will you be hauling directly from the breaker or buying by the tractor trailer load and loading smaller loads from your yard?

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 12:07 pm

oros35 wrote:Best advice if you want to get a CDL is to go to one of the driving schools. They will set you up with everything you need, including a truck that is garenteed to pass the pre-trip inspection. You are much more likely to pass on the first try, and will learn more that way than self study.


When I took mine in the mid 90's I was one of the last to take at state owned place near Hazleton. Passed with flying colors. The guy could tell I was nervous and I forgot the horn for the cab inspection, the guy is sitting in the passenger seat with that "and...." look on his face. The horn!...
If you want to drive a vehicle over 26,000lbs, just get your class A CDL. It will cover you for most anything in your future.


If you're going to school you might as well.
Will you be hauling directly from the breaker or buying by the tractor trailer load and loading smaller loads from your yard?
He's in Nanticoke so not really worth it since the breaker isn't that far, stockpiling is expensive. You need a scale, loader etc and really not worth the expense. Only benefit to that is you can guarantee you have enough throughout the season but you need $$$ to do that.
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 8:58 pm

I've tossed this idea around many times, as I already have a class A with a bit of experience. What kills it every time is the cost. MA reg & fees are OUTRAGEOUS on TT units.

They've gone up on everything - and I mean EVERYTHING - since the recession hit. Even sales tax. Real nice .... and real convenient ... :mad:

Being in PA, & close to the mines, your already 10 steps ahead of me, even without a CDL.
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:04 pm

A class B CDL is almost a waste of time in my opinion. It severely limits your options and most companies that own class B equipment also own class A equipment. Even an excavating guy that owns a dump truck and a trailer to tow his backhoe along after needs the class A if that trailer is over 10,000 pounds and if you have a decent size piece of equipment to tow it probably does. If you know you really don’t need the class A then just get the class B, at least you wont have to learn to back trailers or the proper coupling and uncoupling procedure. Believe it or not the coupling/uncoupling trips many people up on the class A road test.

Should you or anyone for that matter get a CDL you must get a DOT physical every year or two depending on medical condition. The feds are in the process of certifying DOT doctors. What does that mean? Not any doctor can give you a DOT physical in the near future. What does that mean? The price of a physical just went up and getting an appointment for a physical just got longer. Thank your Uncle Sam.

Pennsylvania and every other state for that mater are in the process of linking your physical to your license. This is a mandate from upon high. Thank your Uncle Sam. What this means is that in the near future physical cards will become obsolete. When the police run your license it will show if you have a current physical. If you have a CDL but don’t drive a commercial vehicle and decide not to get a physical you will lose your CDL. Once you lose your CDL you can only get it back by going through the entire process; permit, knowledge test, road test. Anyone who has a CDL and gets a different job but wants to hang onto the CDL “just in case” has to keep their DOT physicals or they will lose their CDL.

I personally would not advise someone who has never drove a truck to buy a truck and get a CDL and get out there and make some money. It is a big risk and like others have posted owning a truck includes a lot of headaches and expenses.
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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Mar. 01, 2013 11:33 pm

gaw wrote: If you have a CDL but don’t drive a commercial vehicle and decide not to get a physical you will lose your CDL..
Gaw, you can opt of the physical and retain your CDL license for the future but don't get caught driving a truck unless it falls under the exceptions. Mechanic doing road tests for example doesn't need a medical card.
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/dl_forms/Sel ... eet%20.pdf

IF A CDL HOLDER IS NOT CURRENTLY WORKING AS A PROFESSIONAL DRIVER, DO THEY STILL NEED TO SUBMIT A
MEDICAL EXAMINER’S CERTIFICATE AND/OR SELF-CERTIFICATION FORM?

Yes, otherwise the commercial driving designation will be removed (downgraded to a non-commercial driver’s license). To avoid
the loss of the commercial driving designation and the requirement to apply for a learner’s permit, they should self-certify as
either “Excepted Interstate” or “Excepted Intrastate” transportation.
If and when the driving type changes, they will be required
to resubmit the Self-Certification Form (DL-11CD) and submit a valid Medical Examiner’s Certificate.
Please note that making this change to the driving record will automatically disqualify the CDL holder from operating in any form
of Non-excepted transportation. Once they are able to renew their Medical Examiner’s Certificate, they must submit it along
with an updated Self-Certification Form (DL-11CD).
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Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 5:36 am

I don't know anything about what it takes to be a trucker, but I WANT that Dumper bed Rich posted to get my manure over the garden fence and into my garden and to install my new second floor windows and paint my house and do some tree limbing :P That dump bed is AWESOME!.... I wonder how Uncle Sam is going to charge me to drive it on my own damb land :mad:

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Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 7:34 am

Doug, I am sure the gov't could not give a price just yet. They have to form a committee and do a field study first. Look at the nice job they have done on their own finances and go from there. Mike

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SMITTY
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Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 8:01 am

It'll cost me north of $100 - I think closer to $130 to renew my CDL. And that's skipping the Hazmat test ....because now there's only one registry in the state that gives THAT test. Friggin state .... :mad:
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

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Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 8:14 am

Ohmmmmm, Smitty, Ohmmmmm. Take a deep breath. It is all for the best as they are protecting us and society from ourselves. Relax, smoke some of that legal weed, soon you will be comfortably numb!

Kevin

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ntp71
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Post Sat. Mar. 02, 2013 11:00 am

Ok..thanks for the replies..so what did I learn?

If I am just going to do a Coal truck (over 26,00lbs) then a Class B will suffice, however if I want to be marketable in the future as far as getting a job in the trucking industry then a Class A is the better choice...sound about right?

A CDL driving school was also suggested, however because I work full time and I sometimes have to travel this doesn't seem like a good option for me at this time..unless I get laid off. I looked into a class at LCCC and their night classes run 5 days a week. I can guarantee that I would miss whole weeks for work, so that is out of the question.

Neal

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