Medium Nut Coal Shortage? Exporting to China?

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MarkV
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine DS-1500WH
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk nut
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

Post Sat. Nov. 26, 2011 9:24 pm

Hello, fellow coal burners. Long time reader of this board, first post (didn't have anything worthwhile to say til now :D).

We've burned medium (red-ash) nut size coal in our Franco-Belge stoves for 27 years. Our chimney doesn't have strong draft, and pea size coal just will not burn in my stoves. Nut size, on the other hand, burns well for me in most weather conditions. The few times I've tried the harder white ash coal, also nut size, it's burned ok but not consistently--sometime didn't burn through the night or burned up too quickly.

I had a coal delivery scheduled from Wertz Coal Yard in Mechanicsburg, PA for Tuesday 11/22. Two tons of medium nut coal. That morning, the dealer called and said he had no coal available, and didn't know when he could get any. Wouldn't even put me on a waiting list.

I called coal dealers from Chambersburg to Elizabethtown, and several in Perry and Juniata counties. Same story--no medium nut, didn't expect to get any. Two dealers told me the medium coal, especially nut size, is being sold for export to China. One dealer said the government is involved somehow (trade agreements?) and is forcing this.

It's ridiculous when a resident of Pennsylvania, of all places, can't buy coal. Do any of you have any info on what's going on? Thanks...

p.s. I went to Espenshade's Coal Yard near Elizabethtown to buy several bags of Blaschak nut coal to see how that burns in my stove. Very nice lady there told me several of their customers burn the Blaschak in similar Franco-Belge stoves and love it.

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mason coal burner
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Post Sat. Nov. 26, 2011 10:07 pm

all of our worst fears have come to pass !!! I went to get 3.5 ton of coal for my brother last night . the guy I get coal from only had about 6 ton . I said your getting pretty low ? he said he had to beg his supplier to send him one more load . that will take at least 3 weeks to come in . the breaker he gets his coal from said he can't get anymore coal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are sending it to CHINA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he said he might be able to get coal somewhere else but the price will be at least 30$ / ton more . I think china has told us they don't want our worthless paper anymore . they want our natural resources . I think the NEW WORLD ORDER is industrializing CHINA and deindustrializing us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am truely scared !!!!!!!!!!!!

memco man
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Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
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Location: vermont

Post Sat. Nov. 26, 2011 11:28 pm

I just hade the same thing happen to me, I called my coal guy and asked if I could pick up a couple of tons next friday and he said that he did not have it there if I was lucky I might be able to pick up a ton maybe I have to call him and check first.
It really makes me wonder what is going on an if the goverment is behind this who's pockets are getting full I was also told that the price is going up from 350.00 to 370.00 a ton these are Vemont prices is that the average price or dose it very from state to state?

mason coal burner
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:02 am

agway around here gets 300 / ton . the guy I get mine from does bulk coal on the side . he gets 255 / ton

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Poconoeagle
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 8:46 am

waiting for a few pallets of blashack rice coal, after 3 weeks, the owner of ace hardware store called them and indeed he relayed to me they said a lot of thier production is going to china :x
"Do it Right the First Time" dont leave it for the next guy, as YOU may be the Next guy!!

CoalUserWannabe
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 12:15 pm

MarkV wrote:
It's ridiculous when a resident of Pennsylvania, of all places, can't buy coal. Do any of you have any info on what's going on? Thanks...

p.s. I went to Espenshade's Coal Yard near Elizabethtown to buy several bags of Blaschak nut coal to see how that burns in my stove. Very nice lady there told me several of their customers burn the Blaschak in similar Franco-Belge stoves and love it.
It's more ridiculous , of all the places in USA, that Coal and Wood Stoves are being sold in Pennsylvania but manufactured in Taiwan !
I can understand stoves and inserts being sold on the west coast, but to make it all the way here to Pennsylvania ? that's a real insult from the politicians and business men to the Pennsylvania residents, if those businessmen can find a way to make ice cheap enough in China and Taiwan, they'll be exporting it to Alaska soon ! Sarah Palin won't be able to stand in their way, since she may be too busy keeping an eye on the Russians from her Balcony !

mason coal burner
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 12:20 pm

their are stone yards in MA selling granite form China . that is insane !!! that would be the same as china selling coal in PA .

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lsayre
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 12:46 pm

mason coal burner wrote:their are stone yards in MA selling granite form China . that is insane !!! that would be the same as china selling coal in PA .
It would pretty much be a slam dunk to assume that if the Chinese actually had anthracite that was of a suitable quality and property level for home heating, we would all be burning Chinese anthracite to heat our homes right now. That leads me to believe that they do not likely have it. That also could be why it has been reported that they are purchasing ours.
-Larry

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Richard S.
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 1:02 pm

lsayre wrote:That leads me to believe that they do not likely have it.
Whether they have it or not they wouldn't be shipping it here, China needs all the energy they can get their hands on. They have about 100 billion ton reserve of coal, they burn 5 billion tons per year and that total includes a 1 billion ton increase in the last decade alone. Do the math, they will run out of domestic coal in a very short time. Just about every other industrialized nation has same issue. There is perhaps only three nations on this planet that have vast stores of fossil fuel energy compared to their needs; the US, Russia and Canada.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

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Chuck_Steak
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Post Sun. Nov. 27, 2011 6:50 pm

memco man wrote:.. I was also told that the price is going up from 350.00 to 370.00 a ton
these are Vemont prices is that the average price or dose it very from state to state?
It's going to vary state to state, dealer to dealer.
The state to state thing, is simply a function of how much trucking time/miles it
takes to deliver. That is pretty much a fixed cost.
So much per mile, for sake of conversation.
The other factor will obviously be how much your dealer wants to make
on a ton of product...
That is not a fixed cost. So if one dealer is happy to make $40 per ton, and another
won't do it for less than $80, well... there is your 40 buck difference.
Could be the difference between $330 and $370.

We mentioned last month that it was getting harder to get coal.
And during the summer were saying 'buy now, buy now!!"
It wasn't a sales pitch or scare tactic.
We were waiting 3-4 or more weeks, then.
Kimmel, we just stopped even thinking we would get it.
They rarely even return phone calls.
Blaschak has been better but still, big lead time.

Dan
Thank God for the moon...
It gives us light at night, when we need it.
Not like the sun that gives us light in the daytime,
when we don't need it.

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stovepipemike
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Post Mon. Nov. 28, 2011 4:35 pm

It seems that a lot of the mines are closed today,at least I cannot get any person to answer.The only info I got on the phone was a pre-recorded message from Calvin Lenig. It said coal is in very short supply.Do not even bother to come to the yard unless you confirm that we have coal first. What is really going on here,anyone know for certain? Mike

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titleist1
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Post Mon. Nov. 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Hunting season is probably why they are closed today.
I drive a VW TDI, heat my home & workshop with two coal stokers and have two vintage JD diesel tractors....
The EPA just loves me!!

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ValterBorges
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Post Mon. Nov. 28, 2011 9:43 pm

i checked penn coal and
**Broken Link(s) Removed**. Besides the extra 20$ pet pallet fall increase not much has changed.

I think they just figure its not profitable to run the business for a few people but they want you to come back in the spring and buy more volume. So they tell you its the chinese because their easy to blame, far a way, you cant verify. I bet if you call and leave a message about 22 ton you'll get a response. Then show up and tell you said 2.2 tons they didnt hear you.

Many don't want to carry all the extra inventory, they wait and aggregate orders until they have FTL.
Valter

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Berlin
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Post Tue. Nov. 29, 2011 3:21 am

ValterBorges wrote:i checked penn coal and
**Broken Link(s) Removed**. Besides the extra 20$ pet pallet fall increase not much has changed.

I think they just figure its not profitable to run the business for a few people but they want you to come back in the spring and buy more volume. So they tell you its the chinese because their easy to blame, far a way, you cant verify. I bet if you call and leave a message about 22 ton you'll get a response. Then show up and tell you said 2.2 tons they didnt hear you.

Many don't want to carry all the extra inventory, they wait and aggregate orders until they have FTL.
you are right, the exporting to china thing is mostly nonsense as far as I can tell; anthracite is being exported, but china hasn't been a destination. You are wrong however about being able to get a truckload; I couldn't even arrange a guaranteed delivery date a month or more out - even through january.
Burning western Pennsylvania Bituminous in WNY using model 77 stoker furnace. BITUMINOUS equiptment: 2 hand fired stoves of my own design, Many Combustioneer Model 77 stokers, stokermatic furnace, Many Will-Burt stokers, & and Two Iron firemen.

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Coalfire
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Post Tue. Nov. 29, 2011 4:56 am

Berlin wrote:
ValterBorges wrote:i checked penn coal and
**Broken Link(s) Removed**. Besides the extra 20$ pet pallet fall increase not much has changed.

I think they just figure its not profitable to run the business for a few people but they want you to come back in the spring and buy more volume. So they tell you its the chinese because their easy to blame, far a way, you cant verify. I bet if you call and leave a message about 22 ton you'll get a response. Then show up and tell you said 2.2 tons they didnt hear you.

Many don't want to carry all the extra inventory, they wait and aggregate orders until they have FTL.
you are right, the exporting to china thing is mostly nonsense as far as I can tell; anthracite is being exported, but china hasn't been a destination. You are wrong however about being able to get a truckload; I couldn't even arrange a guaranteed delivery date a month or more out - even through january.
If not China where? And for what? How do you know, are you in the industry?

Thanks, Eric

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