Red Ash or White Ash

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CoalHeat
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 8:14 pm

I will only burn deep-mined coal, I learned my lesson, with the help of this forum and from Coal Berner in particular.

Here's some mystery coal which was practically impossible to burn and jammed the grates in the Harman. It also was expensive stuff.
BADCOAL3.JPG
$265 a ton delivered, still have some--want it?
NASTY COAL.jpg
NASTY COAL2.jpg
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
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BIG BEAM
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 9:54 pm

Here I go again,
Do the people that run or own the breakers go by a recipe of so much of this coal and so much of that coal from a certain vein or mine to come up with the "blend" that they want.And what happens if a certain mine runs into trouble and can't supply coal for a few weeks?Do the people that run the breakers substitute another (lets say) red ash in the recipe to maintain a high heat blend?

I'm guessing here but lets say if Superior can't get coal from the Orchard vein for a few months would they just substitute more Primrose coal to keep the heat up?(red ash making more heat in genral than white).

Let me ask another way.Are the people who run the breakers familiar with all the coal mines in the area and be able to substitute one mines coal for another so as to keep the consistency of their product about the same?
DON

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coal berner
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 10:17 pm

traderfjp wrote:Hi,

I read every post and find this thread really interesting. I have a stoker and was wondering if someone can tell me what type of coal I have. On the grate it looks like red ash but in the ash pan it looks like white and red ash so I'm confused. This was from Kimmel. Here are two pics.
What you have is mixed red ash and white ash and alot of unburt coal or bone if it was all white ash it would look like snow
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal

mike
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 10:33 pm

The coal sherman is getting from where I work is mostly still all skidmore which isn't a white ash coal but is red, almost the same shade of red as Harmony's coal. We really won't be putting out a lot of Mammoth for a little while yet just a little here and there. The Mammoth in from here should burn fairly hot (13,000 btu's+ ) so I wouldn't worry about losing BTU's from it versus the Skidmore.

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coal berner
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 10:37 pm

BIG BEAM wrote:Here I go again,
Do the people that run or own the breakers go by a recipe of so much of this coal and so much of that coal from a certain vein or mine to come up with the "blend" that they want.And what happens if a certain mine runs into trouble and can't supply coal for a few weeks?Do the people that run the breakers substitute another (lets say) red ash in the recipe to maintain a high heat blend?

I'm guessing here but lets say if Superior can't get coal from the Orchard vein for a few months would they just substitute more Primrose coal to keep the heat up?(red ash making more heat in genral than white).

Let me ask another way.Are the people who run the breakers familiar with all the coal mines in the area and be able to substitute one mines coal for another so as to keep the consistency of their product about the same?
DON
Don Breaker like Superior own there own mines they have 3 right now they do not buy from others the different veins are from the different mines they are in all of the coal they mine go threw there breaker not all of the breakers have or own
there own mines so some will have to buy from whoever has the raw coal mine run coal they buy from whoever they can
get the coal from Being there are only about 11 Anthracite deep mines left in PA and about 58 Surface mines left yes
all of the owners of the breaker and Minning co know each other and the minning co.that do not have breakers will have
to sell there coal to a breaker that will buy it The owner of the breakers that have there own mines more then one do not
have to buy any other coal I will make a list for you and Pm you who owns the breakers with there own mines
and who buys from others
Last edited by coal berner on Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal

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coal berner
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Post Tue. Oct. 21, 2008 10:49 pm

mike wrote:The coal sherman is getting from where I work is mostly still all skidmore which isn't a white ash coal but is red, almost the same shade of red as Harmony's coal. We really won't be putting out a lot of Mammoth for a little while yet just a little here and there. The Mammoth in from here should burn fairly hot (13,000 btu's+ ) so I wouldn't worry about losing BTU's from it versus the Skidmore.
yea I had the skidmore listed as white ash not red ash can't remember everything I do have a brain fart once in while As far as BTU's for Mammoth vein I know Mike's coal is right up the mountain a few miles from your Mike does not burn
hot and you have burn it I know and you know he is in a few different veins of coal and I get the less amount BTU's Per
lb from his coal out of everyone else but the ash is nice
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal

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traderfjp
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 12:11 am

My camera staurates the reds so the ash isn't nearly as red as the pic depicts and there is a lot of talcum powder ash mixed in. I don't think there is as much bone as it might seem because if it was shale it wouldn't turn to powder when I crush it with my fingers from what I 've read here. In any event the coal seems to burn great but the real test is when temps drop. It's 40 right now and the stove is on idle and the room temp is 75. I also notice that my ash is clumpy when the stove idles but when I fire it harder the ash will become more powdery.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

BIG BEAM
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 3:51 pm

I can't take any pics but the Sherman he got Saturday and I started burning Sunday seems like white ash.It's as white as the Blaschak I had 2 years ago.In fact it seems the same.The ash has little flakes that break apart in your fingers.It shakes down the same.same heat and same ash.No clinkers either.I just dumped a load of ash outside today and it had a little pink in it but I thought that was from the red ash mystery coal I was burning before I started burning the Sherman.
DON

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BIG BEAM
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 3:57 pm

J.C.
I can see that if a breaker and mine are owned by the same people they can control the quality of the final product much better than if a breaker buys coal from various mines.I'm looking forward to the list of breaker owners who also own their own mines.
Now I see why you've burned Superior for so many years.It makes a lot of heat and the consistency is similar from year to year because they own the breaker and mines.
DON

mike
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 6:28 pm

If you got coal from Sherman and it's all white ash you have some of the first two loads or so that we pulled out of the Mammoth at Alfred Brown All in all the coal from Sherman is of pretty good quality.

BIG BEAM
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 8:01 pm

Mike is that stuff from Sherman strip mined? Seems clean as in not much bone.I'm happy with it .A friend of mine split a load with me and he loves it.He has a vermont castings and said it makes more heat than any coal he ever had and the shake down was also EZer than any other coal.But he can only compare it to local coal.Wait until I turn him onto Superior next year. :blowup:
DON

mike
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Post Wed. Oct. 22, 2008 8:22 pm

Sherman isn't all strip mined, probably about half I'm guessing. Alfred Brown is a deep mine, which I work at and I think the other half comes from a strip mine owned by the same guy that owns the Sherman breaker.

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coal berner
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Post Thu. Oct. 23, 2008 2:18 am

traderfjp wrote:My camera staurates the reds so the ash isn't nearly as red as the pic depicts and there is a lot of talcum powder ash mixed in. I don't think there is as much bone as it might seem because if it was shale it wouldn't turn to powder when I crush it with my fingers from what I 've read here. In any event the coal seems to burn great but the real test is when temps drop. It's 40 right now and the stove is on idle and the room temp is 75. I also notice that my ash is clumpy when the stove idles but when I fire it harder the ash will become more powdery.
Bone is the rock that was formed in with the coal when it was formed it has low % of carbon content in it It will burn
to a point but not to ash shale is what is layer between the Surface of the ground and the vein of coal it is not formed in the coal but a out side layer of material before the vein or after the vein you will see this when they strip /Surface mine
you will see the different layer of the material from Surface of the ground to the vein of coal or any rock quarry
bone is in the coal At the breaker when they crush the coal up and float the coal the bone falls to the bottom of the tank
the coal floats at the top they skim the coal out it then gets shakin on the sizing screens also it will be hand picked
by men to pick any rocks or unwants out of the coal then it goes to the correct size coal bins in the breaker where the wash
in down then you pull under the chut and they fill you up they ask you do you want it wet or dry if wet the turn the water
line on and it gets washed again when it comes out of the chute into your truck you then go to the scale get you weight
pay for the coal go home shovel it into you bin then burn it or in my case weigh the coal first before I load it then weigh the ash when it is burnd then I keep warm happy for winter
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal

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Post Thu. Oct. 23, 2008 7:04 am

Thanks for the reply. Honestly the ash looks very similar to the coal I was burning last year which was a different brand. It's kinds like granola and will turn to dust if crushed. The BTU output seems to be good from what I've seen so far but I need some really cold days to tell. It's hard for my to make comparisons because I'm using a Coaltrol this year and my stove runs at a more constant temp then me trying to fiddle around with the manual feed. I was always over firing or under firing the stove. I'm pretty good at guessing the feed rate but it's impossible to be right on like the Coaltrol.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

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Post Tue. Feb. 09, 2010 7:56 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:I will only burn deep-mined coal, I learned my lesson, with the help of this forum and from Coal Berner in particular.

Here's some mystery coal which was practically impossible to burn and jammed the grates in the Harman. It also was expensive stuff.
BADCOAL3.JPG
NASTY COAL.jpg
NASTY COAL2.jpg
Digging up an old thread---

I recently shut down in order to clean out some clinkers and I found exactly what John has posted above. My coal was from Superior. Clinkers had in it what appeared to be raw iron. But I'm not the geologist.

Speaking of which, yesterday I took note between UAE & Superior, The UAE may have less ash but the ash is lighter and dustier. The Superior coal
( load from early Dec ), much more ash, heavier ash & large clinkers. So, not looking to rehash Superior vs UAE or any other supplier, just the fact the UAE is much dustier as the ash seems lighter which in my mind can be more hazardous to your health when handling.
Cap
Lehigh Twp.
Northampton Co., PA

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